Anti-Social on R4 now on the girl guide and single sex spaces

Part of the problem is it always seems to be viewed as personal, 'my lovely, lovely friend wouldn't hurt a fly', one person's lovely friend is everyone else's stranger and we can't have rules and laws on the basis of everyone apart from the 'lovely' ones.

Presumably at least some of the trans identifying men that have been proven to be dangerous will have Mums or sisters or friends who think they are lovely just like all other categories of men who harm women. But even the 'lovely' ones lead to self exclusion by some women and trigger trauma responses in others not because the women who are strangers to them think they aren't 'lovely' but because they think (know) they are men.

At the moment the boys being asked to leave guides, or who are prevented from joining, can be told its not personal its just the rules.

If its left to individual guiding groups to decide if the boy can stay or go then it does become personal. The boy is being asked to leave/not join because the other girls have decided that he personally can't stay.

How is that a good situation for the boys or the girls.

Agree! The decision shouldn't be made by young girls, it should be made by adults, who, after all, have (or shoukd have!) a greater understanding of the consequences of such a decision.

Children shouldn't be making these decisions. You can't allow children's wishes to override either safeguarding or the law.

To clarify I don't think 'lovely' boys/men should be allowed in girls/women's spaces but that a group of young girls in Rainbows or Brownies may be happy to admit a trans friend they have known for years but they feel they have to say yes down the line when another boy wants to join at the guide stage but puberty has altered their views on the differences between between males and female. A hard, solid no means no girls have the shoulder the responsibility of deciding if they want boys in their group.

'And of course the problem of you let 'your lovely, lovely friend' in but then the next male wanting to join might be a lot less 'lovely, lovely' and make the girls feel very uncomfortable'

Absolutely. We cannot go around bending the rules, and breaking the law (!), on the basis of how 'lovely' someone is perceived to be. We all know plenty of lovely men who would be no threat at all to women but that does not mean they should be able to access female only spaces

'i really didn't like the snarkiness at the beginning..
'What have you been up to since you've last been on" [to Milli]
Milli tells him.
Host make comment about her plugging her book.'

I hated that too, but loved her asserting herself along the lines of 'well you did ask what I'd been up to!' 😁

Yes, was Oliver really the best choice? As he just went on about the feelz.
I really didn't like the snarkiness at the beginning..
'What have you been up to since you've last been on" [to Milli]
Milli tells him.
Host make comment about her plugging her book.
So rude

And of course the problem of you let 'your lovely, lovely friend' in but then the next male wanting to join might be a lot less 'lovely, lovely' and make the girls feel very uncomfortable but they can say no to him when they have said to their 'lovely, lovely friend'.

Shouting at the radio again. What an absolute knob the male participant is. The girls at his children’s primary school get ONE day a week to access the playground fully, away from footballs. He thinks this is wonderful. His poor daughter. She must look forward to Tuesdays every week because that is the only day that she doesn’t have to keep to the fringes of her playground. Do we reckon this guy is for real because I’m wondering if he’s a stealth GC man who is taking the proverbial out of the transgender debate? If he’s genuinely all for eroding the rights of girls, he’s a terrible dad and an extremely poor debater.

This programme is being repeated now (for anyone who did not shout at their radio enough first time around).

I suppose se of it boils down to it not being access to the third space that they want - it’s the single sex and validation from it

The Trefoil Guild is already a related entity to Guiding which accepts both men and women as long as they agree to promote the aims of guiding. Currently its for over 18s only, but i dont understand why this structure cant be leveraged and groups that want to accept biological boys who identify as girls come under the trefoil umbrella, and those who want to stay as single sex, stay under guiding's umbrella.

https://www.trefoilguild.co.uk/

Too busy being outraged and posting on Facebook?

The GATE group seems to be a lot of hot air. I really don’t understand why if they care so much they don’t just schism off. Take their knowledge, passion, experience of Guiding and set up their own version. SCouts does/ did this periodically (eg Baden Powell Scouts and the British Boy Scouts)

You'd think all the senior people in the guides who are determined to be 'inclusive' would have been better placed to defend their views than random man. Were they not asked or did they just turn down the opportunity?

The idea that any male thinks his opinion that girls shouldn't be allowed an activity just for them has any merit at all is a joke. Not a girl, never was a girl, never will be one - wind your bloody neck in.
There's reasons girls choose guides not scouts, the fact they have chosen a single sex activity already tells you what you need to know Oliver. They have already cast their vote by joining up.

The lack of trans activist input was also present on the debate in Parliament this afternoon. I think the more clever ones have realised that putting forward their views is debate and that needs to be avoided. It often goes down badly with "civilians". Their application of influence needs to return to the shadows to be at its most effective.

I wonder if the usual TRA are avoiding the discussion?

I think the TRA wanted trans identify boys and their parents to speak, but few are, so random guy who is willing to talk about anything at a moments notice, gets the gig.

This was another thing I was furious about. Why the fuck had they invited A Man to give his opinions on an issue affecting women and girls?

Why the ever loving fuck should his voice be amplified over the many, many knowledgeable women who would have been happy to speak on the subject? And yes, I mean in the role of being against single sex spaces. I may not have agreed with anything that the Oliver role had to say, but the "part" deserved to be given to a woman.

Aah, I feel such relief in finding this thread! I looked for one on Friday. I listened to the show in my car. Pretty sure other drivers would have observed my ever increasingly angry hand gestures and shouting at the pathetic WhatAboutOliver.

Oliver's insistence that boys should be supported (by girls) and their transgressions against girls overlooked because they have such a hard time going through hormonal changes poor loves had me seething. Does he think pubescent girls don't have hormonal changes that affect them greatly? Does he think we should stop trying to raise young people into decent adults by guiding their behaviour at every stage, yes even (perhaps even especially) when they're thinking with their dicks??!

Well behaved girls should be honoured to be chosen to be support humans for naughty rascal boys, according to him.

Oliver stank of a pale stale male who has never quite gotten over some formative memory in his teenage years - probably a girl rejected his advances.

☹️

I bet the mother of his two kids he’s no longer with

I assumed he'd bought them.

I see from LinkedIn that poor old Oliver stopped being an i columnist in January 2025 and he’s just scrabbling around for work now.

I bet the mother of his two kids he’s no longer with is grateful for him trying to do stuff to raise his profile. Or he could get an actual job.

Yes! There's another contradiction I'd not spotted. There were so many...

He also seemed a really weird choice of guest. NOt involved in Guides, not involved with TRA stuff. Just some random bloke who seemed to be of the opinion boys will be boys, we should be kind to boys who think they aren’t boys, girls are emotional support humans for boys, and a charitable organisation bound by law should abandon national oversight and make decisions on a grassroots basis. Also single sex schools are scary