Younger generations being pro trans

The strange thing about the "#bekind" and "tolerant" crew is that they are the ones most likely to stab you in the back or quite preversely threaten to hurt/rape you.

All whilst being protected by managment who are also being threaten by them.

I hear you. But I doubt it is associated with the Libs, sadly it might be associated with Hanson.

i think I have more hope than you seem to as I have been in the campaign as a letter writer here in Uk etc here for a while now and have watched. I always said it will take longer there because of gillard’s changes to the law.

I also think that the Brisbane Olympics will force discussion about the law. It may be kicked down the road til after the next federal election but there surely has to be a conflict in law and OlC policy that needs to be resolved.

I know. I am Australian too.

But at least the ABC has pulled out of the ACON programme. It will happen in Australia eventually. I don’t know any of my friends or family who are supportive of male people in sports or single sex provisions. They say they are supportive but when you ask specific questions that support disappears.

I agree.

Don't forget a lot of these surveys are worded in a particular way that will get a different response from young people compared to older people. If asked slightly differently young people will talk about fairness too. It's because a lot haven't really given the thought the subject requires. When they do, the lightbulbs do start to slowly go on - part of the issue is precisely because they've never been asked some of these questions by their peers or challenged within the bubble they live in.

Heartbreakingly, I think the bulk of future lawsuits arising from this time will be for medical damage and malpractice.

"I don't think it has to be a majority for the view to be dangerous, even 30% agreeing that transwomen should be in women's spaces is far too high. Ideally it needs to be more like 5% for us to be confident that the debate has truly been won."

The debate has not yet 'truly been won, however I don't believe that it will be able to return to the strength it was with Stonewall's focus in the next 30+ years. And never if no findings give the belief factual foundations of a biological marker.

"I honestly foresee lawsuits for at least the next 30 years as companies continue to let men into womens spaces."

There will certainly be more lawsuits. However, once a solid base of precedent has been established, and again no credible scientific findings, I expect that there will be very few. Even in Australia, the ABC (national broadcaster equivalent to BBC) has announced they are withdrawing from ACON which can be compared to Stonewall here.

Things are changing and I don't believe that the few people who are 18-24 year olds now who support male inclusion in single sex provisions will be able to convince others to change laws.

Young people are idealistic about lots of things.

Then they live life and come face to face with reality.

It's not a symptom of MN not exclusive to this subject. Basically they grow up and realise things aren't as black and white as they thought when they were 18.

Agree. Covid was a big factor in all this; the timing was awful for that generation.

Yes 100%

The only people who think "the world in the future will be different because young people are different" are young people.

The old people think "Ah, I remember when I thought like that as well, how much I still had to learn"

Back in 2018, when I was made aware of gender ideology, when Rachel McKinnon (the Canuck Sasquatch) burst on the cycling scene, I started a thread about it on a well known UK cycling forum. I was very surprised to find a number of the blokes calling me bigoted because of my views and that TWAW. One of these blokes, around my age at the time, said that he generally took the advice from his young sons, who knew far more than we could ever know about current affairs or social behaviour.
I found that quite sad and alarming in equal measure, that he was so weak, that he felt compelled to follow the herd, rather than think for himself.

This is a really important point. This was originally a solely male issue with a vanishingly small group of boys and a larger group of middle aged males - many of them autogynephiles.

Then transgenderism was positioned as a "human rights" issue and instead of exercising critical thinking about what was appropriate for children, trans lobby groups were generously funded by the DfE & other government organisations and were able to specifically target children of all ages - via the NHS, schools, sport and of course online. With girls being particularly vulnerable to online influence.

As @ChamonixMountainBum points out, as children grow up and are away from the heated online atmosphere and places where you're punished for challenging genderism, it becomes a passing phase and the power of the organisations pushing this reduces. Leaving of course a cohort of young women and some young men facing unbelievably tragic future lives.

I reckon if the pendulum can swing away formed based stereotypes it will probably be ok. If in ten years girls wanting short hair or boys not liking football means they were born in the wrong body then we are still screwed.

Otherwise it will probably die a natural death: mortgages, working 35 hours a week plus a commute, partners, ageing parents, wanting children(discovering the self inflicted infertility), will pull the teeth of the TRA’s youthful idealists , just like most people grow out of being goths, emos or socialists.

of course, if “poor mental health” means that lots of them can’t actual get jobs and be distracted by the real
world then there may also be a bit of an issue.

I have a young teen and both him and his friends are definitely not "pro-trans".

I would add they would not treat anyone badly because of being trans (and are aware of social conventions of not saying anything about it out of politeness) but I know they view it as something weird and perhaps funny.

conversely I have seen a lot more people talking about it online - people taking no truck with trans ideology. It seems to have become a lot easier to talk about and the court rulings are making it more difficult for trans activists to shut down the conversation.

Being a sex realist does not make us MNetters ignorant.
Gender ideology has no base in fact. Nobody can change sex, and not aligning with sexed body is about not conforming to gender stereotypes (ie personality differences) or a fetish (AGP).
Regarding being open minded, you can’t generalise about age either. Some young people have very closed minds and fixed ideas.

All the young people I know think trans is a load of bollocks.

They tend not to be able to talk about the fact openly in university environments because of, legitimate, fear of reprisals.

I'm an ex teacher too...but I'm still not sure if you are referring to a particular group of children?

i don't think it is the kids that push trans ideology, I think it is the activist teachers ( of which there many) and their own 'right on' parents ( Jolyon Maugham, several Labour MPs etc); as well as on line groups and influencers.

In real life and pretty much on line, I have just stopped talking about this so much - not because i don't believe in it any more, but because legally everything is going in the right direction.

We have the FWS court ruling. And organisations and the government can stall as much as they like. But it's the law and we all know it.

We had the cass review and now this Finnish study - every professional from teaching to social care to mental health with safeguarding responsibilities for children and other vulnerable people will no longer be able to hide behind Stonewall or any other misinformation.

We have the IOC ruling. And this week alone even darts have said no men in women's darts!!!

So young people can get as cross as they want. And once the new thing comes along they'll forget all about it.

I echo this ^ and all the other posters saying similar on this thread about this much younger generation.

I believe the future is more positive than we might have thought a few years ago.

I think TRAs and their allies simply assumed things would only go one way in the future (i.e. their way) but Gen Alpha has other ideas.

Interesting thread!

What I see around this specific issue is that there is this attempt to continue to portray rejecting male inclusion as being 'right wing'. And therefore this then also plays into the 'as people get older they get more 'right wing'' narrative.

It is an absurdity though because that premise completely misses several points as has already been mentioned. Such as the point that as people gain more experience on the implications and the direct consequences of allowing male people to be treated as if they are female when they are not they realise that it cannot be done without direct negative impact on female people and children.

Also, if someone cannot physically change sex and there are no biological markers for gender dysphoria at all, it can only be acceptably categorised as a subjective belief about themselves explained through philosophical theory and not based on material reality at all. We have been categorically told it is not a mental health 'condition' to believe you are the opposite sex, so that is ruled out of the way we can describe it that is acceptable.

So, therefore this group is to be treated as no other group has done before, yet there is no material reason to do so. Once people understand this with deeper knowledge, they also understand why there is such dissonance with the issue. It is one constructed by individuals and it is not society dealing with a natural variance in people that is materially real.

The more research that comes out that points out that what we have been told previously is not correct or accurate, of course people are going to change their perspective. It is not 'right wing' to have healthy personal boundaries, yet those to resort to saying those who oppose male people in female provisions need to shame people who might be suggestive to political pressure to believe that it is.

So much damage is being done leveraging some people's fear of being seen as being not left wing and being seen as being 'extreme'. Yet when you remove the emotional manipulation of that kind of shit, you realise there IS no half way. If you advocate for any male inclusion, it harms female people.

Hence we had that interaction with the poster who declared we were extreme and did all that 'both sidesing' when the reality was they agreed with most of what we said, but they fully believed that their privileged position of full nudity in a mixed sex communal space was the only way to go for changing rooms. It was like they had this complete blind spot about the needs of other people in their determination to be open minded about these things.

They disappeared after people pointed out that they just showed that they lacked any empathy at all for female people who did not want to be naked in a communal changing space. That they came from a place of privilege about that never seemed to occur them. But .. both sides are extreme apparently.

Not realising their own position was fucking extreme. Extremely harmful to female people.