Not again! - Government is proposing to allow trans-identifying boys into under 18s girls’ school sport - unless it is deemed unsafe

No that is called 'reaching'.

Again, people are allowed to say what they want. If you think it breaks talk guidelines then report it.

Sensible people know that male should not be in female spaces. And where I am really coming from is pointing out that any male entering a female space is behaving in a predatory fashion. Why shouldn't people compare boys who enter female spaces to rapists, we have no idea what they plan to do?

I've not wavered in this in over a decade, it really is pretty simple to understand.

So, yes, you're defending mocking confused trans kids by comparing them to adult rapists.

You have literally just defended a post comparing confused kids to a convicted adult rapist.

Again, it's possible to discuss the issues without resorting to this.

Sensible, reasonable people with nuanced views read these forums. It's quite useful when you show them where you're really coming from.

On average there is one rape a day in UK schools. God knows how many sexual assaults. Of course teenage boys are a threat to girls and there is no evidence that the subset of male who claim a female identity are less risk. In fact there’s quite a lot to say they have a higher rate of sexual offending the other males.

Any male who invades female spaces is a potential threat and a risk to women and girls. It is predatory behaviour through and through.

I don't defend or support anything anyone else says, they have a right to say what they want.

Lots more on this in the Mumsnet working group https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5493378-working-group-kcsie-2026-changes-improve-the-guidance-via-the-consultation-process-promote-more-responses-more?page=1

the more feedback we give on KCSIE the better.

Comparing trans kids to Isla Bryson - which the poster is obviously doing - is hateful and repellent.

It's possible to debate the issues without stopping to mocking children.

Are you seriously defending that?

Are you saying pink leggings with penis showing is a 'stereotype' of 'trans people'? Or somehow 'mocking' them?

And this is about single sex sports and changing in schools, not an adult yoga class.

So easily rattled...

This stereotyping and mocking of trans people is fucking offensive.

90%+ of the posts on this forum are basically civil, but every so often the nasty transphobic mask slips.

Every yoga class I've ever been to has been mixed. Never a problem.

This is a good point so worth saying again and to be raised in any consultation responses:

If the government decides that boys can be girls for some sports, will those boys also be considered girls for getting changed and for sex segregated classes and for toilet facilities? Where is the boundary, what are the rules for when they are and when they aren’t girls?

How can a school socially transition a child so they join the girls’ trampoline class, and then trot off to the boys’ changing room?! It’s going to cause a lot more upset and distress for all sides than just sticking with simple sex based rules at all times. Confusing or what?

Im sure he’d look fabulous in “Bryson pink” leggings with his penis on show. Why would they ever mind?

@MyAmpleSheep my question was whether these new requirements would affect PE classes in general and whether the decisions to allow some boys to self identify as girls for some sports would also mean that those boys would be able to self identify into other aspects of PE that are often sex segregated.

My personal view is that no boys should ever be able to self identify into any provisions, services or sports that have been designated as being for girls only. Just to be explicitly clear.

Yes I do think that covering sensitive topics like puberty in a sex segregated environment is important. Those topics will also be covered in PSHE and science classes, and should be to ensure that consistent information is provided to all children. Having additional sex segregated sessions means that girls can have discussion amongst other girls about what they are actually experiencing or what they can expect to happen. Being able to speak about assaults, and learn tactics to get safe in an environment where they may feel comfortable enough to disclose things that have already happened or may be happening is important.

The converse is true for boys, they also need opportunities to speak about issues that affect only boys with only boys. A girl pretending to be a boy will never experience a wet dream, will never get a surprise boner mid PE lesson and not know what to do, boys may be feeling pressure to be macho or to be protectors due to social messaging that a girl may not have been raised with.

If the government decides that boys can be girls for some sports, will those boys also be considered girls for getting changed and for sex segregated classes and for toilet facilities? Where is the boundary, what are the rules for when they are and when they aren’t girls?

@Another2Cats well this is deeply unequal treatment for ordinary boys/girls then. If the single sex safety and fairness rules suddenly go out of the window for a boy who says he’s a girl and wants to do yoga, but not for any other boy, how is that equal treatment? I can’t see how one risk assessment would be for one boy and one for another? It’s not like it gets fairer, or the girls are less uncomfortable?

I hate people putting girls in a position where they have to pretend everything is ok and just be silently uncomfortable, it’s terrible lesson for life.

I am hard of understanding. Sometimes things need to be spelt out more clearly for me than for others.

Did the girls learn also about condoms? Did they do it while the boys were learning about condoms? When were the boys taught self defence?

Did you mean to say that the girls and boys were both taught about condoms, but separately?

Or is my inference that only girls were taught about self defence and only boys about condoms correct?

If that is correct, do you feel it was a good thing or a bad thing? Has your opinion changed at all since that time?

I never said that they didn’t, I said that some PE classes were separated by sex, that in those classes these things were discussed. You for whatever reason chose to read that as me saying girls should never learn about condoms and boys should never learn about periods.

It may just be that you have poor comprehension skills or it may be that you have a specific point you’re trying ineffectually to make. I don’t know, but I can go back and read what I wrote and so can you.

They will simply say what they have said in the past - it's only one or two transgirls, so it really doesn't make much difference and it's unfair to the transgirls to say no. Or, this particular transgirl isn't that good at sport anyway, etc.

This.

Schools can either apply the single-sex exemption across all PE lessons (as a propionate means of achieving a legitimate aim e.g. it's the only way they can make timetabling work because there are too many sports where mixed-sex participation would be inappropriate) or they could apply it to specific sports only.

Once they've decided how they want to approach it, nobody can socially transition into a sport/lesson that has been classified as single-sex.

My daughters' school made all sports lessons mixed-sex. They tell me that the vast majority of girls hate this, for multiple reasons.

Yes - once I would have thought the same but, since then I have watched in amazement as ( amongst other things):

• a senior cabinet minister declares that a man can grow a cervix,
• the now PM said that it isn’t true that only men have penises
• a father in the U.K. is actually having to go to court in a judicial review to prevent males having the right to access his daughter’s changing room at school.

As I thought. It's just wild speculation.

And with safety - you have a small slight ten year old boy playing with the girls. At 12 he hits puberty and shoots up to a sturdy 5’10” - at what point do you tell him that the girls no longer need to pretend he is a girl?