Disappointed at Andrew Garfield remarks about JKR

My default position is to assume that all actors/media figures are idiots unless proved otherwise.

I'll just leave this here:

Upper-body mass is approximately 75% greater in men because women’s lean body mass tends to be less concentrated in their upper body, and, as a result, men’s upper body strength is on average between 40-60% higher than women’s (compared to lower-body strength which is on average only 25% higher in men). Women also have on average a 41% lower grip strength than men, and this is not a sex difference that changes with age: the typical seventy-year-old man has a stronger handgrip than the average twenty-five-year-old woman. It’s also not a sex difference that can be significantly trained away: a study which compared ‘highly trained female athletes’ to men who were ‘untrained or not specifically trained’ found that their grip strength ‘rarely’ surpassed the fiftieth percentile of male subjects. Overall, 90% of the women (this time including untrained women) in the study had a weaker grip than 95% of their male counterparts.

Caroline Criado Perez, Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men

Sits like a woman, no manspreading there at all!

I saved these photos (will take a while to appear) when the furore around Imane Khelif was at its height around the Olympics.

Doesn't appear to be behaving like a Muslim woman!

You can keep posting list after list Kimura, but I know what my eyes see and Khalif is a man. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise.

Yep - bloke/man/male/he

The linguistic gymnastics that some posters turn out n order to justify men hitting women in the ring is quite something to behold.

thats a lot of words to say shut up women,

IK is still a man

*leaked lab tests confirming 5ARD seen by independent journalists

No. A French media outlet claims to have a copy of a report compiled based on test results, physical examinations etc. Nothing in that report is backed by evidence. There are no 'leaked lab tests'. The IBA haven't released them, leaked them, or even confirmed what the tests actually were.

If independent journalist had access to the actual test results, we'd know about it.

*Khelif refusing to undergo sex testing by the new boxing federation

She is contesting the type of test and the process - assessing anyone who tests positive for the SRY gene as male, then making them appeal.

She has been clear that she will test before the Olympics. She took the IBA tests.

*Khelif asking CAS if they can continue to box without sex testing pending results - CAS thankfully declined

I agree that she shouldn't compete until she's tested, but I understand her request.

*Khelif wearing a male-specific groin guard while boxing (not the differently shaped female guard)

You're repeating internet nonsense. It's nigh-on impossible to tell what type of box someone is wearing under a pair of boxing shorts. Plenty of women wear male guards because they find them more comfortable. I had to spend a lot of money to find a women's guard that didn't irritate me, and it's bulkier than most men's cups. I've yet to see any evidence of her wearing a men's cup.

*Khelif, the self-proclaimed devout Muslim, being manhandled by men and lifted onto the shoulders of male coaches (their religion prohibits unrelated men touching women)

She doesn't wear a hijab to compete either. If she was that devout, she wouldn't have male coaches/training partners at all. I know she's described her parents as 'conservative Muslims', but I'm not aware of her claiming to be devout.

*Photos of Khelif pre-Olympics wearing male-style training gear and looking very different to the post-match feminised photos - the relevance being this was in a conservative Muslim country

What's 'male style' training gear? Why would someone trying to hide the fact that they're a man wear it?

And of course, more subjectively, we have the evidence from the women Khelif boxed against who seem to have never complained about losing to other women but have described the much greater and disproportionate power that Khelif has.

Who has described this? The only opponent I'm aware of making such a claim was the Italian who's head fell off.

Sixty amateur fights, never knocked an opponent out. Only 8 fights finished within the distance. You don't need to know anything about boxing to watch her fight and understand that she's not a big hitter and doesn't have 'disproportionate power'. She's a point fighter.

Grifters going to grift. And men will continue to be violent to women. Such as it ever was. Khelif ticks both boxes.

Khelif was assigned female at birth, was brought up female, competed in female sports alongside other girls and started boxing as a female. She has never lived as a man. Framing this as a case of a man wanting to be violent to women is ridiculous. And trust me, anyone taking up women's boxing as a grift really doesn't need to be hit in the head anymore.

I find it really strange how some people seem really determined to believe that Khelif is female. The only reason I can think of is that they defended Khelif vigorously when the controversy first appeared and don’t feel able to row back from their position.

Is it any stranger than some people being desperate for her not to be? Remember, People were having the exact same arguments about Lin Yu-ting, the other boxer banned by the IBA.

She failed the new test as she carries the SRY gene, but had it overturned on appeal and has been cleared to compete as a woman.

I'm not desperate for Khelif to be a woman. I'm just not willing to make my mind up and start insulting, attacking and casting aspersions on someone based on misinformation, conjecture and nonsense I've read on the internet.

If she can't meet the eligibility criteria to compete then I'll support World Boxing excluding her. If she can, I'll be happy that she's been vindicated.

I am a former combat sports athlete - I know how difficult it is for women to be taken seriously and succeed. I'm not going to pile on somebody until there's a reason to.

Well said!

This is a Feminist board. Obviously a woman making feminist statements in support of other women is going to be preferred over a man making sexist misogynist attack on her!

Weirdly, we don't think Feminism is "anything goes as long as both sexes do it". We think Feminism is the fight to free women (in the original female sense of the world) from being marginalised, exploited, abused, limited or disempowered because of our sex.

JKR's statements support this. The Garfield boy's do not.

"I'll do anything that is required"

But also

"I'm taking them to court to make sure the requirement is one I can pass"

I mean, surely you see this? All this noise and bluster, all this "I'm suing JKR for saying I'm not female" with no subsequent followup, all this "I don't accept those test results, they are biased" yet not producing results to contradict them...

All this, and yet not doing the one incredibly simple thing that would prove Kelif is what (s)he says (s)he is which is to comission a neutral body to make the appropriate tests and publish the results.

Surely you must realise that someone whose career and reputation is so in jeopardy who did have the ability to prove once and for all the accusations are wrong would be doing so?

Absence of evidence in this case points very strongly to evidence being impossible to provide because IK's claimed "truth" is not in fact true.

Deleted message.
Ah, bingo a step too far?
But got so many!

Not culty. Just weak-mannish, misogynistic- mannish, sheepy, and a certain type of Americanish.

Agree with all of that @SpidersAreShitheads- the whole thing is completely crazy & mind-boggling!

Exactly.

I find it really strange how some people seem really determined to believe that Khelif is female. The only reason I can think of is that they defended Khelif vigorously when the controversy first appeared and don’t feel able to row back from their position.

we have:

*leaked lab tests confirming 5ARD seen by independent journalists
*Khelif refusing to undergo sex testing by the new boxing federation
*Khelif asking CAS if they can continue to box without sex testing pending results - CAS thankfully declined
*Khelif hasn’t boxed competitively since sex testing was required
*Khelif wearing a male-specific groin guard while boxing (not the differently shaped female guard)
*Khelif, the self-proclaimed devout Muslim, being manhandled by men and lifted onto the shoulders of male coaches (their religion prohibits unrelated men touching women)
*Photos of Khelif pre-Olympics wearing male-style training gear and looking very different to the post-match feminised photos - the relevance being this was in a conservative Muslim country

And of course, more subjectively, we have the evidence from the women Khelif boxed against who seem to have never complained about losing to other women but have described the much greater and disproportionate power that Khelif has.

Its very easy for Khelif to say that they will consent to the IOC testing in 2028. That gives them two years to continue the grift, scooping up lucrative interviews and deals.

Boxers want to box. Weird how a simple test that would allow Khelif to box is such a hurdle.

Grifters going to grift. And men will continue to be violent to women. Such as it ever was. Khelif ticks both boxes.

saw him on a documentary about tracing his ancestors recently and he was so condescending and pretentious I can’t take anything these luvvies say remotely seriously.

Actually you’re absolutely right about the insult to his looks. You’re right to call me out on that. It was a low blow because it made me angry. I’m still angry. But it has nothing to do with how anyone looks. Apologies to those who are far more erudite in this debate than me.

Does “she” have a body geared up to produce eggs or sperm? That’s the central question.

The answer being if “she” has 5ARD as is assumed from all the reports and sex tests, “she” has XY chromosomes, undescended testicles that produce male levels of testosterone and no uterus, no ovaries, no breasts, and is in fact , male.

No-one doubts this is a tough thing to discover at puberty, but a male person with a micropenis or no obvious penis at birth is NOT female.

It's almost like this is a discussion board and we can discuss what people have said and whether we agree with it or not

I don't find him to be a good actor at all, he makes me cringe and have always found him disingenuous.

Going against JKR’s view that women should be entitled to retain single sex spaces and sports is disappointing. The majority of women would agree. Why do you think they shouldn’t? Why are men’s feelings prioritised over women’s? It’s a male issue not a trans one.

Do tell.

So JKR is allowed to express an opinion because you agree with her and Andrew Garfield expressing and opinion about her opinion is disappointing because you disagree... Any excuse to trans bash... Seriously, this is tenuous.

It's funny, considering Harvey Weinstein was a sexual predator, I have NEVER seen actors come out to distance themselves from him, bend over backwards to make sure the world knows just how deplorable they think he is, separate the art from the artist yada yada yada, drop his name in random press releases that don't have anything to do with him.

JK Rowling shock horror doesn't believe that humans can change sex and she is treated like scum, we are constantly told that supporting her work is literally supporting trans-genocide, she is every bloody name under the sun.

I'm so, so sick of it.

Why wouldn't he?? It would answer the question once and for all wouldn't it? And then could he sue all those people he's been threatening too

but you know why, we all know why, he won't take the test

instead he wants special rules just for him