Poor Semenya

also don’t think you are meanies - I think you feel threatened and panicky and therefore want everyone to agree with you and mis gender CS
No. Just pissed off at having to explain this on a bloody loop.
I know someone who has a DSD. He is male. His DSD does not turn him into a woman or a member of some third sex. He looks like a man, he sounds like a man, he has male pattern baldness. He lives 'as a man'.
CS was quite clearly living 'as a boy' by the time he hit that beach in Durban.

Well no - I can't see inside your head. What made you think "threatened and panicky''?

It's projection. That's what Uglydumpling is feeling right now.

I fail to see why I should be threatened and panicky by a South African athlete who I will never meet. What I don't like are people who cheat to win hugely important sports events, no matter how they do it.

I do!

I wondered who the heroine who saved my life the other day was. She had disappeared before I got chance to thank her.

Thank you

You tell me

There are some really interesting points in the Court of Arbitration for Sport decision:
https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Award-5794-final-with-redactions-for-publication-compressed.pdf
For instance Semenya's statement that reducing his testosterone to eligible levels had cause medical problems:
the DSD Regulations will result in Relevant Athletes undergoing medical treatments with adverse health risks including venous thromboembolism ("VTE"), decreased bone mineral density, significant weight gain, hypotension, renal dysfunction, electrolyte abnormalities, cardiovascular disease and sterility.

And the the fears of genital inspection [that seems to be quite a theme, doesn't it? we get in re women's toilets too] are rendered irrelevant by the fact that a simple swab is all that's needed - put that measuring tape away😬
The DSD Regulations provide for intrusive medical assessments that involve examination of female athletes' most intimate body parts (including measurement of the size of the clitoris). This is likely to cause feelings of shame and will undermine the affected athletes' dignity and self-esteem.

Ultimately, having heard all of Semenya's claims and arguments
The requests of arbitration filed by Ms. Mokgadi Caster Semenya on 18 June 2018 and Athletics South Africa dated 25 June 2018 against the International Association of Athletics Federations seeking to declare unlawful the Eligibility Regulations for the Female Classification (Athletes with Differences of Sex Development) are dismissed.

Why threatened and panicky? @Uglydumpling

I don't care if he paraded around in shorts or a full on Victorian ladies swimming costume.

I don't care if he thought he was a girl until tests showed otherwise

I do care that once he knew he was indeed male he continued to con people and cheat.

That’s me last - but without the brain washing

I can see why she wants to stay with what she thought she was and it doesn’t affect me in a negative way as long as she doesn’t compete in female category

also don’t think you are meanies - I think you feel threatened and panicky and therefore want everyone to agree with you and mis gender CS

I love beetles! I saved one of your sisters who was in the middle of the road the other day - or it could have been you! Do you have beautiful iridescent wing casings?

im saying we don’t know and can not know the direction of CS thinking mind at any onetime

you don’t have to have male genitals to wear the shorts though do you

Yes. The sort of swimming shirts designed for boys to wear. With the little inner net shorts to keep the genitals in place.

Clearly not the sort of swimwear that you wear if you are a girl. Especially 20 odd years ago.

You have suggested there is no evidence that he knew he wasn’t female. That is part of the evidence.

It could be.

But there are people who have heen taken in by genderist propaganda and actually believe that Semenya is a woman who has been unfairly treated.

And there are those who have been so brainwashed by bekindery that they believe Semenya should be able to call himself a woman if he wants, even if he shouldn't compete in women's sports - and worse, that the rest of us should also connive in that lie and refer to him as she and her or otherwise we're meanies / bullies / fascists / nazis or whatever the insult du jour may happen to be.

It's just a wind up

I think the figures for normal testosterone levels are very stark:
men: over 300 nanograms per decilitre
women: 15-70ng/dL

So there's a huge gap between the levels in women, and in men.

A woman with raised testosterone isn't going to be anywhere near 300ng/dL, and a male with a DSD is going to have to reduce his testosterone drastically to get anywhere near normal female levels.

For those who are claiming that Semenya’s biology is uncertain

https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Award-5794-final-with-redactions-for-publication-compressed.pdf

he doesn’t have a vagina. He’s lying.

He hasn't.
He cannot have a vagina,, can he?

Nobody with 5a-RD can possibly possess any female organs.
Because they're all men.
All of them.
Every last one.

ALL MEN.

To be clear, I would rather not be having this conversation, but I'm so cheesed off with being told he's female.

Here's the graph. The Hubbard and Semanya lines are the levels that they were required to reduce their testosterone to not their natural levels

I'll make it very simple for you.
Caster has a DSD.
The DSD is 5-ARD.
This leads to the genitalia not forming as male genitalia despite the foetus being male. The testes are internal, there is no uterus.
The genitalia will be mistaken at birth for female genitalia.
Most typically the micropenis looks like a clitoris and the scrotum like labia.
Clearly this could have been avoided at birth if DNA checks had been carried out etc.
You have been told this several times but don't seem to want to accept facts.

That is spin.

The levels CS has are not "elevated" or "raised" female levels, they are totally outside female levels. They are, however, normal for male.

The level CS was required to reduce (s)his testosterone to was even way outside normal female levels.

To be clear, that is (s)his artificially reduced testosterone level is still way outside normal female levels, right up at the top edge of "a very ill" female level.

You must see that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, even if for each individual duck-like observations has an uncommon but could happen excuse, eventually the balance of probabilities is that it's just a duck. Even if each excuse by itself might be plausible, the likelihood that all these unusual occurrences hit the same person is not.

Time for the graph I think.

OMG we do know!

He has been diagnosed with a specific DSD which is only seen in men.

We know that these men are frequently (and wrongly) recorded as female at birth, as the male baby's scrotum and micropenis look like the external genitalia of a female baby.

This has been explained to you over and over again. Google it FFS.

The answer should of course be yes! Everyone knows I truly am a beetle!

But seriously Caster has everything to lose and nothing to gain by admitting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Yeah not really…because when you google everything says she’s a women!!!!

Well not everything. Just all the genderist propaganda.

@Uglydumpling do you understand about propaganda?

This is the definition given by AI - "Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic spreading of information — such as facts, rumours, half-truths, or images — to influence public opinion, advance a specific agenda, or manipulate behavior. It often presents only one side of an argument, uses emotionally charged language, and is frequently misleading or biased, rather than objective." This is a very fair description.