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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:18

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:15

No thanks

gosh the arrogance

Edited

Asking you to read an article is arrogant?

ETA - I know I can't make anyone read stuff, but I don't see the harm in politely asking. It might help people understand each other.

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:17

No

its really that simple

and its good practise to keep things as simple as possible

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 19:17

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:06

I don’t think you can call the world sports association or whatever it’s called is trying to disrupt sex being binary - they are trying to grapple with the complexity of people for which their sex isn’t exclusively male or female

No they aren't, because that is a solved problem. We already have a framework for supporting the many wonderful humans who want to participate in elite sport but due to developmental disorder or injury fall outside the usual human range.

It's called the Paralympics, it is hugely respected and influential, and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever "intersex" as you have it should not be a Paralympic category with all the support, care and attention to fairness that comes with it.

No, the "complexity" they are grappling with is entirely down to the ideological demand that these people who are not simply boring old female people, whether "intersex" (in your terminology), males with DSDs, or jusy plain ol' males who are trans identifying, somehow nevertheless should have the right to be compete within the sports category that also contains the boring old females regardless of whether or not their biological differences to said boring old females give them unfair advantages.

viques · 28/03/2026 19:17

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:10

Yes and that has been remedied now but the problem or Dsd people and where they compete hasn’t been decided

It’s easy.

Biologically female people compete against other biologically female people.

Anyone else can compete against who ever they choose to. If they are good enough they will win prizes and medals.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:16

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:14

So we have males and we expect them to be able to make sperm and even if the can’t they are still male - we don’t say they are female because their sperm kit doesn’t work

and we have females and they make eggs and if that doesn’t work we still call them female

you are almost there …

That’s very over simplified as you well know

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:15

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:14

Please read the article I linked for you.

When you have read it, I think my post will be clearer.

No thanks

gosh the arrogance

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:14

So we have males and we expect them to be able to make sperm and even if the can’t they are still male - we don’t say they are female because their sperm kit doesn’t work

and we have females and they make eggs and if that doesn’t work we still call them female

you are almost there …

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:14

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:12

Understood perfectly

Please read the article I linked for you.

When you have read it, I think my post will be clearer.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:12

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:11

I don't think you understood my point.

Understood perfectly

HoppityBun · 28/03/2026 19:12

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 18:57

No I meant hers

Her testicles?

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:11

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:06

I don’t think you can call the world sports association or whatever it’s called is trying to disrupt sex being binary - they are trying to grapple with the complexity of people for which their sex isn’t exclusively male or female

I don't think you understood my point.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:11

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:10

And that’s called a problem

buy if an XX person didn’t produce sperm it’s called as expected

Yes exactly

although I guess we couldn’t say for them it was a problem- they may not care

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:10

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 19:09

"Intersex" is a cultural concept humans have created based on DSDs. It's similar to the multiple concepts of "race" humans have created based on skin pigment, or indeed to terms like "priest", "slut" or "master" that are not based on any observed biological features at all, in that it is not a biologically meaningful term or an inherent quality of the human animal but nevertheless can still be a meaningful and consequential classification within human culture if enough humans believe in it.

To that degree yes "intersex" is or at least has the potential to be "real".

However, the potential cultural existence of "intersex" people does not negate the certain existence of just under half of humanity as simply and biologically female, and slightly more than half of humanity as simply and uncomplicatedly biological male. Nor does the potential cultural existence of "intersex" people remove the certain advantages that biologically male people, including those who may be culturally "intersex", have over female people in many sports, or the certain cultural and social disavantages and challenges that female people face in a society shaped by and for male.

So I always find it very telling when someone puts so much effort and concern behind the putative feelings of potentially culturally meaningful "intersex" people while glossing over the documented, ongoing and undeniable injustices faced by female people. It's almost like caring about a vast everyday injustice faced by half of humanity is too mundane; their special and refined sentiments are only moved by rarified and special injustices.

Now, I am happy to hold my hand up and say I don't watch sport of any sort. I find women's, and indeed men's, sport mostly very tedious.

Nevertheless, I very much care that the women who compete in women's sports get a fair go and that their sports are valued and respected for women. Not because I give a shit about sports especially, but because I very much do give a shit about women.

Yes and that has been remedied now but the problem or Dsd people and where they compete hasn’t been decided

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:10

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:08

But it isn’t - someone could be xy and not produce sperm

And that’s called a problem

buy if an XX person didn’t produce sperm it’s called as expected

loislovesstewie · 28/03/2026 19:10

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:06

I don’t think you can call the world sports association or whatever it’s called is trying to disrupt sex being binary - they are trying to grapple with the complexity of people for which their sex isn’t exclusively male or female

I'm going to ask again, what are these complexities? A person who has internal testes is male, it's really that simple. Surgery in childhood would have remedied that. Other treatments can cause a micro penis to grow. Those are standard treatments.

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:09

I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few years*, Semanya writes another biography about how he was exploited by trainers or officials and he now understands that he is really male.

*once he can't earn money from his current grift

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 19:09

"Intersex" is a cultural concept humans have created based on DSDs. It's similar to the multiple concepts of "race" humans have created based on skin pigment, or indeed to terms like "priest", "slut" or "master" that are not based on any observed biological features at all, in that it is not a biologically meaningful term or an inherent quality of the human animal but nevertheless can still be a meaningful and consequential classification within human culture if enough humans believe in it.

To that degree yes "intersex" is or at least has the potential to be "real".

However, the potential cultural existence of "intersex" people does not negate the certain existence of just under half of humanity as simply and biologically female, and slightly more than half of humanity as simply and uncomplicatedly biological male. Nor does the potential cultural existence of "intersex" people remove the certain advantages that biologically male people, including those who may be culturally "intersex", have over female people in many sports, or the certain cultural and social disavantages and challenges that female people face in a society shaped by and for male.

So I always find it very telling when someone puts so much effort and concern behind the putative feelings of potentially culturally meaningful "intersex" people while glossing over the documented, ongoing and undeniable injustices faced by female people. It's almost like caring about a vast everyday injustice faced by half of humanity is too mundane; their special and refined sentiments are only moved by rarified and special injustices.

Now, I am happy to hold my hand up and say I don't watch sport of any sort. I find women's, and indeed men's, sport mostly very tedious.

Nevertheless, I very much care that the women who compete in women's sports get a fair go and that their sports are valued and respected for women. Not because I give a shit about sports especially, but because I very much do give a shit about women.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:08

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:06

no its just sperm or eggs. that’s all

there - simpler now. Isn’t that nice ? You were worried about the complexity

But it isn’t - someone could be xy and not produce sperm

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:06

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:03

The motivations of people trying to disrupt the truth (that there are two sexes in humans, that human beings cannot change sex, plus that people with DSDs can be identified as one sex or the other) would be interesting to explore.

I don’t think you can call the world sports association or whatever it’s called is trying to disrupt sex being binary - they are trying to grapple with the complexity of people for which their sex isn’t exclusively male or female

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:06

no its just sperm or eggs. that’s all

there - simpler now. Isn’t that nice ? You were worried about the complexity

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:05

I'm off to the pub, the gerbils there all know what a woman is, and Caster wouldn't get through the front door, he'd have to go to the Staunch Ally down the road with all the other men.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:04

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:01

Female and male traits ?

what are they exactly ?

teh only trait we are interested in is eggs or sperm making traits

they ain’t traits as such - just plumbing

the rest is personality

Yes that’s exactly the problem just saying is there sperm or eggs - for dsd there is more

not just sperm or ovaries - they could have female genitalia such as Vulva and vagina and then partially ovaries or womb and gonads

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:03

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 18:58

Nobody is saying she is a women - we are saying she has both male and female traits and has chosen to stick with sex assigned at birth

You might be. I'm not

He is a man.

viques · 28/03/2026 19:03

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 18:58

Nobody is saying she is a women - we are saying she has both male and female traits and has chosen to stick with sex assigned at birth

WE are saying? Is there more than one dumpling in this pot?

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:03

loislovesstewie · 28/03/2026 18:58

It's being debated because some people can't accept facts.

The motivations of people trying to disrupt the truth (that there are two sexes in humans, that human beings cannot change sex, plus that people with DSDs can be identified as one sex or the other) would be interesting to explore.