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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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CassOle · 28/03/2026 20:44

...the medical establishment isn’t even sure yet...

I'd love to read the sources that back up this assertion.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/03/2026 20:42

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:44

Yes its great although they are just dsds

glad for females

Edited

No, all humans are biologically male or female.

Some humans have a DSD that affects the biological expression of their sex.

Culturally we may decide to draw a line around those people to include members of both sexes with DSDs and call them "intersex", but it's simply a cultural label, it is not a fact of biology.

That such people actually were "intersex", or to use an even older term, "hermaphrodite", was an understandable assumption when we didn't have the scientific understanding and ability to investigate subtle differences that we do today. However, we do now know at the biological level "intersex" as an actual biological state between the sexes is not real, and it does not become real even if culturally we consider it a useful way to think about some people.

(To the latter, I must in good conscience recognise that while the term "intersex" is meaningful to some people including some people with DSDs, many others find it outmoded and offensive. The phrasing "even if" is purposeful; I am illustrating the logical boundaries of a cultural concept of "intersex" should it be commonly accepted. I am not suggesting it is or should be commonly accepted).

MarieDeGournay · 28/03/2026 20:36

I'm back.
I see having a BSc in Molecular Biology and Genetics, or in Human Developmental Biology, just isn't good enough for Uglydumpling .

If it's to complicated for Uglydumpling to understand, it's too complicated for anybody with less than a - what level would be sufficient for you to take their word, Uglydumpling ?

I'm returning to your earlier post:
Uglydumpling·Original·Today 19:28
My knowledge is just gathered over time amd what is topically being discussed
which I responded to in a positive way.

However, you edited it so it read
Uglydumpling · Today 19:28
My knowledge is just gathered over time and what is being discussed topically - I’m not someone who says it’s definitely this and I’m not listening to grey - I don’t know how you can make that claim when the medical establishment isn’t even sure yet
to which I would not have responded in such a positive way, as it was just another of your unsupported claims about the medical establishment.

When you clicked on 'edit post', did you not read that it is supposed to be used to correct typos, not to change the content of the post?

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 20:35

But its sooooooooooo complicated and we just caaaaaaaaaaannnnt possibly understand it.

SwirlyGates · 28/03/2026 20:32

I'm thinking there must be some major thing happening somewhere and Ugly is a plant trying to distract us from that by repeatedly posting on this thread and keeping us busy.

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 20:30

SternJoyousBeev2 · 28/03/2026 20:28

Have we been enlightened yet as to which female traits Caster Semenya has?

Ha!

As if!

SternJoyousBeev2 · 28/03/2026 20:28

Have we been enlightened yet as to which female traits Caster Semenya has?

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 20:24

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 20:12

The implications are hard for them to understand in terms of elite sport and need much more research

im nether or those things

and degrees aren’t really the level we are talking at here to claim to really know

Edited

I think the implications were made perfectly clear the year 3 men with DSDs took the gold silver and bronze in a single women's race.

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 20:17

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 20:12

The implications are hard for them to understand in terms of elite sport and need much more research

im nether or those things

and degrees aren’t really the level we are talking at here to claim to really know

Edited

you're just making yourself sound foolish now. There are people on this thread who are currently working as human developmental biology researchers carrying out research into DSDs.

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 20:15

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 20:07

Yes and then many more quals becuase o level biology wouldn’t be enough

they would say only genetically male - that’s isn’t all of it

there isn’t a reliable source anyway that says what dsd CS has

There is a reliable source of which DSD Semanya has because he took a legal case against one of the athletic organisations and rhe details of his DSD are published as part of that case.

It's not the first time on this thread that you have been told that the details of his DSD are known due to the case

Datafan55 · 28/03/2026 20:14

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 18:38

You are forcing her right there

I don’t have to comply with the language - intersex is chosen by many

And regardless, his condition is defined as 'man'.

loislovesstewie · 28/03/2026 20:13

How???

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 20:12

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 20:09

Probably O level Biology?

Ok Ugkydumpling, go straight for a BSc in Molecular Biology and Genetics, like mine, or in Human Developmental Biology, like at least 2 of the posters on this thread. Perhaps then you'll be less confused. Mind you, my son is doing A level Biology at the moment and DSDs are mentioned and human sexual development and sexual dimorphism is covered in depth, so that might also be a good place to start. Honestly, you have no idea how often we've heard this tedious confused waffle about intersex, its just tedious now (and often used disingenuously by trans rights activists to try and muddy the water about the fact that men can't become female and vice versa). And DSD conditions really ARE NOT difficult to understand for scientists.

The implications are hard for them to understand in terms of elite sport and need much more research

im nether or those things

and degrees aren’t really the level we are talking at here to claim to really know

Blueskiesnotgrey · 28/03/2026 20:09

Probably O level Biology?

Ok Ugkydumpling, go straight for a BSc in Molecular Biology and Genetics, like mine, or in Human Developmental Biology, like at least 2 of the posters on this thread. Perhaps then you'll be less confused. Mind you, my son is doing A level Biology at the moment and DSDs are mentioned and human sexual development and sexual dimorphism is covered in depth, so that might also be a good place to start. Honestly, you have no idea how often we've heard this tedious confused waffle about intersex, its just tedious now (and often used disingenuously by trans rights activists to try and muddy the water about the fact that men can't become female and vice versa). And DSD conditions really ARE NOT difficult to understand for scientists.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 20:07

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:54

Doctors who deal with DSDs are not grappling with who is male or female and would be able to tell you that 5ARD is a male only DSD.

Some of them may even have taken biology A level in the 80s

Yes and then many more quals becuase o level biology wouldn’t be enough

they would say only genetically male - that’s isn’t all of it

there isn’t a reliable source anyway that says what dsd CS has

viques · 28/03/2026 19:59

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:51

We aren’t talking basic biology - we are talking about something medical establishment is grappling to understand the implications of in sport

I don’t think telling them to do a gcse from the 80s in biology would help

Edited

Which is why some time ago on this thread I asked if it was time to roll out Professor Lord Robert Winston, who not only has a very good GCSE ( GCE I mean, he is too old for GCSE) in all sorts of useful science stuff, but went on to become a world renowned expert in these things, and is very usefully a consummate communicator who knows how to explain very complex truths to both super experienced and learned fellow scientists and us lesser mortals.

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:55

If it’s not that simple but we have a lot of terribly terribly bright women here so if you would just point to the science please

or would that be too complicated to do?

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:54

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:51

We aren’t talking basic biology - we are talking about something medical establishment is grappling to understand the implications of in sport

I don’t think telling them to do a gcse from the 80s in biology would help

Edited

Doctors who deal with DSDs are not grappling with who is male or female and would be able to tell you that 5ARD is a male only DSD.

Some of them may even have taken biology A level in the 80s

CassOle · 28/03/2026 19:53

Why does the opinion of someone (who, by their own admission, won't read things that they might disagree with) hold any weight at all?

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:53

It really is that simple.

You have male humans and female humans.

That's it.

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:52

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:51

But it would give you the basic understanding about which DSDs affect males and which affect females. You may even learn that 5ARD is a DSD specific to males.

No it isn’t that simple

spannasaurus · 28/03/2026 19:51

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:50

It wouldn’t cover it on a level you need to fully understand - I certainly wouldn’t think that would make me have all the answers

But it would give you the basic understanding about which DSDs affect males and which affect females. You may even learn that 5ARD is a DSD specific to males.

midgetastic · 28/03/2026 19:51

Nothing could ever explain it so anyone can fully understand because it’s soooo complex that not even @Uglydumplingcould even attempt to explain

Uglydumpling · 28/03/2026 19:51

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 28/03/2026 19:47

I don’t think GCSE biology would incude complex biology

It definitely includes basic biology though.

You seem to have missed that @Uglydumpling

We aren’t talking basic biology - we are talking about something medical establishment is grappling to understand the implications of in sport

I don’t think telling them to do a gcse from the 80s in biology would help

Boiledbeetle · 28/03/2026 19:51

loislovesstewie · 28/03/2026 19:48

If I wasn't sworn off the alcohol at present, I think I would be on my 4th glass of something potent by now.
This thread is a lesson in how to make a very simple concept into something beyond difficult.
There are 2 sexes. That's it.

You wouldn't think it such a difficult concept to grasp would you!

I don't drink either but the temptation to roll yet another joint grows stronger by the minute!