Why is sex the only protected characteristic that people want to, or are ‘allowed’ to, self identify into? by

It’s not. you seem to have forgotten that religious belief is a PC.

Vastly more people self-ID into a religion for the purposes of getting their child into a specific school than self-ID into the opposite sex.

In fact self-IDing into a convenient religion is so commonplace it’s not even really seen as a bad thing to do, just a hoop to jump through.

Changing gender should be a medical process, because that’s what it is. After all, most are taking hormones and some go for surgery. There are psychological issues too. Self ID is problematic.

…The process of changing gender should have dignity and good care embedded in the process. But it should not be a free for all.

Sorry but I don't follow your 'they’re not the only people in the trans umbrella.' point.
I actually said your style is changing from faux-naive as we go on.

A good question, if you can change your 'sex marker' on you birth certificate why can't you change your 'age marker' ie DOB. Enquiring minds want to know.

If I could change 62 to 59 I could retire now, instead of having to go another 3 years, I've been 'living as an old person' for 2 years, I wear old lady clothes, I've got grumpy down to a tee, why can't I change the 'date assigned at birth' for one that aligns with how my aged soul feels I am. 🤔

Where have I suggested that?

98% of sexual assualts are committed by men so all men, however, they identify should stay out of female single sex spaces.

I don't distinguish between men who say they are men and men who say they are women

Yes and that is the problem but they’re not the only people in the trans umbrella.
thanks that you think my writing style is niave but youre not really engaging with my points. Youre just insulting me, which is making it very hard to have a respectful convo with you

You are not aware of what she does in the men’s loos. But her very presence is illegal and she is putting her ideology ahead of their dignity. That’s illegal and selfish.

No but I feel like you are? My implying trans people are all pervs who need to be excluded, it feels very close to these old homophobic arguments

No but I feel like you are? My implying trans people are all pervs who need to be excluded, it feels very close to these old homophobic arguments

He funnily enough doesn’t look at them. There is urinal etiquette - ask men about this it is hilarious. It’s not polite to stand next to someone. If there’s no space you use the cubicle.
gay men are more of the risk here than trans men for obvious reasons by your logic??

Sorry, are you suggesting that gay men are a risk to other men in toilets.

And how does the best practise 3rd space resonate with you? So like toilets for men, women and neutral gendered?
as the mother of 2 boys, I will always use the disabled. Gender neutral is great for parents out with their kids who can’t use their genders bathroom. so doing things like this - gender neutral spaces as well as single sex spaces- benefits not just trans people.
like how is a third space you don’t have to use impacting on your rights and safety? Queer spaces don’t tend to have single sex toilets. They tend to have private cubicles and if alcohol is involved there’s a bouncer there.

It’s a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. It’s quite shocking hearing you so angry about a marginalised group that face prejudice every day.
you don’t have to exclude them completely, you can listen to their concerns, say what works - eg, third gender neutral optional toilets - and what doesn’t - trans people in single sex changing rooms - without completely dismissing someone else’s reasonable request.

my friend is not going around scaring men in toilets. He’s living his life and contributing to the planet and a lovely person. Why wouldn’t I call him he? you don’t have to like it but I’d like to understand more about your pov and how you got their without you insulting my friends?

He funnily enough doesn’t look at them. There is urinal etiquette - ask men about this it is hilarious. It’s not polite to stand next to someone. If there’s no space you use the cubicle.
gay men are more of the risk here than trans men for obvious reasons by your logic??

like how is a third space you don’t have to use impacting on your rights and safety?
It doesn't. If the TRA movement put their energy into lobbying for third spaces I'd be right there with them. Unfortunately the emphasis has seemed to be on pushing for men who say they're women being able to use women's loos/changing rooms etc. As well as being able to compete against women in sport.
It is interesting seeing your 'naive' writing style change as the posts go on.

And how does the best practise 3rd space resonate with you? So like toilets for men, women and neutral gendered?
as the mother of 2 boys, I will always use the disabled. Gender neutral is great for parents out with their kids who can’t use their genders bathroom. so doing things like this - gender neutral spaces as well as single sex spaces- benefits not just trans people.
like how is a third space you don’t have to use impacting on your rights and safety? Queer spaces don’t tend to have single sex toilets. They tend to have private cubicles and if alcohol is involved there’s a bouncer there.

It’s a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. It’s quite shocking hearing you so angry about a marginalised group that face prejudice every day.
you don’t have to exclude them completely, you can listen to their concerns, say what works - eg, third gender neutral optional toilets - and what doesn’t - trans people in single sex changing rooms - without completely dismissing someone else’s reasonable request.

my friend is not going around scaring men in toilets. He’s living his life and contributing to the planet and a lovely person. Why wouldn’t I call him he? you don’t have to like it but I’d like to understand more about your pov and how you got their without you insulting my friends?

In using a urinal men expose their penises. They do that in a single sex space. Your friend if she so uses those spaces removes men’s right to the privacy of a single sex space. It’s a matter of dignity.

This isn’t hating on anyone - it’s stating an objective fact. It’s been a legally observed fact too.

Your friend puts her individual perspective above the rights of all men. That’s a breach of the law and also incredibly selfish.

And how does the best practise 3rd space resonate with you? So like toilets for men, women and neutral gendered?
as the mother of 2 boys, I will always use the disabled. Gender neutral is great for parents out with their kids who can’t use their genders bathroom. so doing things like this - gender neutral spaces as well as single sex spaces- benefits not just trans people.
like how is a third space you don’t have to use impacting on your rights and safety? Queer spaces don’t tend to have single sex toilets. They tend to have private cubicles and if alcohol is involved there’s a bouncer there.

It’s a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. It’s quite shocking hearing you so angry about a marginalised group that face prejudice every day.
you don’t have to exclude them completely, you can listen to their concerns, say what works - eg, third gender neutral optional toilets - and what doesn’t - trans people in single sex changing rooms - without completely dismissing someone else’s reasonable request.

my friend is not going around scaring men in toilets. He’s living his life and contributing to the planet and a lovely person. Why wouldn’t I call him he? you don’t have to like it but I’d like to understand more about your pov and how you got their without you insulting my friends?

I’m a bit confused by this. I understand safety and I’m the first person to argue with you. But I don’t understand how supporting someone to live in a way that feels authentic to them is putting men at risk? 😂😂 again would be the first to argue about this but trans men can’t always use the urinal. They’re going into the cubicle, which is much more private.
if a man has decided to follow you into the toilets and do something to you, little pictures on the doors aren’t going to stop him. You know why? Because it’s illegal to do it anyway and he’s doing it anyway.
surely the solution is more research into gender dsyphoira? Not to hate people and exclude them? Being trans on the whole is not easy. You face discrimination every day. It’s much easier to just wait until dark to attack someone than go to all this trouble to change gender?
please explain? Because when you hate on trans people you’re not just hating on the men who you think do it to control women. You’re also shitting on a vulnerable group that includes a lot of people who have a genuine issue that causes them distress in their day to day life.

It's not a question of risk. It's decency & propriety. People in the UK expect sex segregation for toilets, showers, communal changing etc Both men & women feel uncomfortable with someone of the opposite sex intruding where they have no place going.
Men don't want your female friend in the Gents so she shouldn't be using them. Validating her identity as a pretend man is not a job for men.

I’m a bit confused by this. I understand safety and I’m the first person to argue with you. But I don’t understand how supporting someone to live in a way that feels authentic to them is putting men at risk? 😂😂 again would be the first to argue about this but trans men can’t always use the urinal. They’re going into the cubicle, which is much more private.
if a man has decided to follow you into the toilets and do something to you, little pictures on the doors aren’t going to stop him. You know why? Because it’s illegal to do it anyway and he’s doing it anyway.
surely the solution is more research into gender dsyphoira? Not to hate people and exclude them? Being trans on the whole is not easy. You face discrimination every day. It’s much easier to just wait until dark to attack someone than go to all this trouble to change gender?
please explain? Because when you hate on trans people you’re not just hating on the men who you think do it to control women. You’re also shitting on a vulnerable group that includes a lot of people who have a genuine issue that causes them distress in their day to day life.

Changing gender on a document doesn’t technically confer more rights. It does validate your friend’s idea that as a biological woman they have done status as a male.

You are right though, most of ‘trans rights’ aren’t legally given, they’ve been illegally taken. If your friend uses the male toilets she will be violating the dignity of the men using them. The process for the passport and official document validating their gender dysphoria has a part to play.