Dumb question possibly

You are so polite and restrained in your responses to unscientific bollocks, Marie.

OP

It is really difficult to work out how all the negative side effects are dismissed when you consider the very fact that a child just going through puberty is then put into menopause!

There are articles with mothers describing the menopause symptoms that their teenaged daughters are suffering with.

And why are they going through menopause? Because these children have been convinced that they need to go through extreme body modifications so their bodies 'fit' their gender identity. An identity.

Though some people here are doctors or health professionals and some even have doctorates in science subjects, you know.

I have a 30-something trans man in my wider family and she's not in great health at all. It's very upsetting to see her using mobility aids when she was perfectly healthy five years ago.

Jeez.

I’d rather hear it from a wider number of people than the poster that just called themself “mom” when a man cannot be a mom/mother. More likely to get the truth.

I would hate to join a discussion without having first checked my facts from reliable sources, but that's just me, I don't like running the risk of making an eejit of myself if I can help it

Quite.

Sympathy @PeaceWhite, it was a similar situation that moved me from vague tolerance to 'hold on, what the hell is happening?' about a decade ago. The entire ideology is evil.

I don’t know the exact cocktail but I do know it fucks up their health long term.

Why don't you ask the poster that very question?

The poster has been on this board for quite a while with threads going back a year or so.

Thank you

AidaP But... we do it routinely. For women that's testosterone supplements which easily take you near baseline male levels ..

Given that the lowest normal level of testosterone in men is 300 nanograms per decilitre, and women's normal levels are 15–70 nanograms per decilitre, a woman taking supplements that increases her testosterone levels to 300ng/dL would be in serious trouble!

I'm surprised by your very confident assertion of 'medical facts' which don't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

I would hate to join a discussion without having first checked my facts from reliable sources, but that's just me, I don't like running the risk of making an eejit of myself if I can help it

really? I thought AidaP was a female ninny, not a male ninny. Not that it makes much difference.

My favourite 'cis': If you are on a bus, a public transport vehicle, and it malfunctions and you're stuck as it waits on the side of the road for assistance, it has become a public cisport vehicle.

I think what the OP is asking is whether trans identified girls reduce their oestrogen and progesterone compared to menopausal women who are recommended to increase it.

I understand that testosterone is responsible for a whole host of health issues in young girls. But my question is do they continue to take puberty blockers to reduce their oestrogen and progesterone, or do they stop once they take testosterone?

And does the oestrogen and progesterone then return?

I'm guessing they do, but in lower amounts than those needed to produce puberty?

Does anyone know?

No. It is different.

Firstly, there are physical negative implications for future health that are very carefully balanced before deciding to use these drugs on female children.

Then the major difference is that after a period, natural puberty is allowed to resume. This is not the case in someone who halts their natural puberty and never finishes that natural puberty process because they have taken hormones in quantities of the opposite sex category for their body.

We do have decades of the negative impact of the same drugs taken for precocious puberty on women decades later. Life limiting side effects and potentially life shortening side effects. Lupron side effects are quite well documented by the patients who have these side effects.

I’d imagine for precocious puberty no one says to a young child you thinks their trans they can’t have the same PBs that the other children have for this problem. It’s a silly argument. The idea is that when they go through puberty later any side effects will be resolved naturally.

AidaP is one of our trans regulars.

No they have said it

I am going to put this here so people can read it on the thread.

The impact of testosterone on female people's bodies has been well documented as others have said.

AN ARTICLE THAT TRACES THE EAST GERMAN FEMALE ATHLETES AND THE IMPACT OF TESTOSTERONE ON THEIR BODIES

This article has a link to a summary (in German) about the impact of testosterone on those athletes. However, Paul Steger does a summary in this substack article. He makes a point that many of those women started testosterone around 12 to 14 not long before the average recommended age of girls taking testosterone of over 16- 17.

Doped then, transitioned now.

Paul Steger
May 26, 2025

https://genderstats.substack.com/p/doped-then-transitioned-now?r=2b1evv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

This is part of the article:
The Eastern German doping scandal
" Doping often began between ages 12 and 14.
Oral-Turinabol was designed to maximize muscle-building (anabolic) effects while minimizing masculinization (androgenic) traits. The intent was to boost strength—especially in female athletes—without making them look “too male.” In the end, it is estimated that at least 10,000 athletes received androgen doping with the majority of them being female.

A blueprint for the mass-medicalization of gender distressed girls
To assess whether this doping scandal offers a meaningful precedent for understanding the long-term health consequences of testosterone in trans-identified females, two criteria must be met:
The substances involved must be comparable in effect and dosage.
The age profiles of the affected individuals must be similar.

On the first count, the overlap is striking. Anabolic steroids like Oral-Turinabol are testosterone derivatives and produce similar virilizing effects in women. A 2024 summary of the East German doping scandal listed common side effects reported by female athletes — many of which closely resemble those described by female detransitioners today:

Disruption of the menstrual cycle, including a complete absence of the period (amenorrhea)
Increased cyst formation
Uterine and vaginal atrophy
Irreversible deepening of the voice, increased hair growth
Excessive increases in libido
Increased aggression and impulsive behavior "

and then

"Testimonies affected women: Chronic illness, birth defects and trans-identification

Consider the case of Birgit Pabst, a former shot-putter. Told she was receiving vitamin supplements, she soon experienced classic signs of masculinization: a deepened voice, excess hair, and rapid muscle growth. When she later failed to conceive, her doctor discovered her uterus was developmentally equivalent to that of an 11-year-old. Only after prolonged treatment with female hormones was she able to have a child. Today, she suffers debilitating joint pain and requires morphine daily.

Katja Hofmann, a former discus thrower, lives with severe liver damage, hypertension, cysts, joint pain so intense she vomits from the pain, and underdeveloped reproductive organs. In a 2018 Die Zeit interview she stated that while she “loves life,” she doubts it will be a long one.

In a disturbing parallel to the testimonies of detransitioners today, many athletes today say that there is a strong sense of shame and guilt. Many endured years of guilt and shame before speaking out, describing the experience as "liberating" and crucial to healing—eerily similar to the testimonies of detransitioners today.
In some cases, the next generation was also affected. Nicole S., a rower doped from age 12 developed severe heart and liver cancer in her early 20s. Her son was born with epilepsy, ADHD, asthma, and fine motor impairments. This does not seem to be an isolated incident: The advocacy group for doping victims DOH (“Doping-Opfer Hilfe”) is aware of at least 300 such cases involving birth defects—ranging from hydrocephalus to malformed limbs. The German sport historian Giselher Spitzer noticed early on that among affected women, unusually many suffered from miscarriages and stillbirths. And if their children made it to the world alive, an unusually large proportion continues to suffer from chronic illnesses.

The effects across generations is maybe not surprising when you consider what testosterone (and to that extent also anabolic steroids) do to the female reproductive system. Testosterone and its derivatives cause uterine atrophy, increasing the risk of infections and impairing fertility. Just watch this interview with the Venus Envy on the Gender - A Wider Lens Podcast for a more detailed explanation. "

and

" What the research says

There have been a variety of attempts to measure the health effects of the East German doping scandal. Most studies, however, rely on self-selected samples because the people studied came forward by themselves. For instance, people who have stronger health complications might be more eager to speak out than those with only mild impacts on their well-being. The findings of these studies should therefore always be taken with a grain of salt in that they might overestimate the negative health effects.

However, the long-term health complications are shocking. Here is a selection of studies. Whenever possible, I will restrict findings to female athletes. However, when it comes to cardiovascular and oncological side effects, I could not find any reasonable argument why the effect should be dependent on whether the athlete was male or female.

-A 2023 case-control study (comparing doping victims to the general population) finds that relative to people of similar age who have not undergone doping, athletes who were given androgens exhibit statistically and clinically significant elevated rates of depression, chronic stress and a severe reduction in physical well-being. The effects are similar for both sexes.

-Together with the doping victim advocacy group “Doping Opfer Hilfe e.V.”, the German psychologist Harald Freyberger analyzed health records of former athletes that came forward and found that previously doped athletes died on average 10-12 years earlier than the general population and were 2.7 times more likely to be physically ill.

-A 2018 study found that 25 % of doped athletes suffered from cardiovascular disease, 27 % had tumors and 27 % of female athletes suffered from gynecological problems

-A 2024 study found that 21 of 56 female athletes suffered from miscarriages, 50 out of 56 suffered from gynecological problems.

The athletes today are on average 55 years. Overall, 25 of 107 athletes had cancers in various forms, 35 out of 107 heart issues, 10 out of 107 were epileptic, 13 out of 107 had lung issues and 94 of them were suffering from joint pain.

The German collection of side effects is on this link below

DDR-Leistungssportler:innen und Staatsdoping

https://www.nomos-elibrary.de/10.30820/9783837962017-53.pdf

The 2023 case-control study is on this link below:
Psychopathology of Former GDR Competitive Athletes in Comparison to The General Population
Simon-Friedrich Buhrmann, Thomas Klauer, Jochen-Friedrich Buhrmann, Hans Jörgen Grabe
May 2023

https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/html/10.1055/a-2093-3122

The 2018 study referred to is on this link below:
Traumatische Folgen des DDR-Staatsdopings
May 2018
Freyberger, Harald J.; Netzker, Jens; Buhrmann, Simon; Drescher, Anne; Geipel, Ines; Gallistl, Adrian; Buhrmann, Jochen

https://elibrary.klett-cotta.de/article/10.21706/tg-12-2-116

The 2024 study referred to is on this link below:
Damage to doping victims of the GDR
10 December 2024
Christoph Raschka & Horst J Koch

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s15006-024-4236-1

Exactly. Puberty blockers for precocious puberty are given for a very limited amount of time under strict controls.

It is done on a ‘least worst’ basis where the consequences of a child going through puberty at age 5 for example are deemed to be worse than the side effects of the puberty blockers.

These side effects are still quite serious though and there is a class action running in the US against a puberty blockers manufacturer due to the serious harms caused by even legitimate use.

Giving young girls testosterone and hormone blockers puts them into early menopause, stops them laying down bone deposits for the future and often leads to vaginal and uterine atrophy. This causes serious pain and excessive bleeding or haemorrhaging after sex. Anecdotally, it takes approximately 5 years for these effects to show. Excess testosterone in girls can also cause serious damage to heart function as a recent court case found a female patient at risk of imminent death.

Contrary to erroneous claims on this thread, it is not remotely healthy for a female to have male levels of testosterone and in normal circumstances, urgent medical treatment would be given to rectify this.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant @canitbeanything I took it to mean you were correctly using the term trans identified female, but some of the first few threads made me doubt my understanding.

Yes it's mad isn't it? Many menopausal women take HRT precisely because of the unwanted effects of the their hormones diminishing, and to protect bone, heart and brain health. So I agree with you that it is utterly deluded to block those hormones in young women.

I have a 30-something trans man in my wider family and she's not in great health at all. It's very upsetting to see her using mobility aids when she was perfectly healthy five years ago. I hate to think how she will be in another five. So much nonsense spouted about the changes being reversible. Nobody brings it up either, but I know her parents are worried sick.

She's diagnosed autistic too. I don't know a single gender confused young person who isn't.

What? Have they said that in all seriousness or is it the usual ‘only a man would have that opinion’ nonsense? I’ve been accused of being a man on MN, when I most definitely am female inside and out down to my DNA.

People aren’t picking up on mom here because it’s not mum. They’re doing it because they know from past threads that AidaP is male.

Tedious men mansplaining menopause to women. Is it lunchtime yet?

The same for women taking male hormones. They reduce their estrogen meaning they go through a pseudo menopause which causes all the menopause issues like reduced bone density. Imagine having osteoporosis in your twenties because you’re a trans man who has had a hysterectomy to stop periods, blocked your female estrogen and been taking testosterone.
https://www.hysto.net/osteoporosis-hysterectomy-transmen.htm

It follows the exact same mechanism, and yes, we have many studies on that gathered over the decades.