My WI group folded this week

“The ballot box was immediately removed by our official visitor and she counted the votes in private, refusing anyone overseeing the count. (the manager of our meeting place, who is not a WI member, could have done this as an inpartial observer). She then told us that we'd voted out so our group was, as of that moment, no longer part of the WI, and neither was our healthy bank balance
.….

The room in which we met had been prepaid for several months in advance so we plan to carry on meeting there for the moment. But the national federation has decreed this an "inappropriate use of moneys" and has demanded we repay them the amount we've paid to advance book (as well as already having taken our money, which was of course stuff that we'd raised with our monthly raffle, cake sales etc as well as the subs).“

Wow, this all seems like rather suspect behaviour! Is it a lot of money they are asking to be repaid? If so, I would be thinking about seeking legal advice! And as for inappropriate use of money, well the irony is off the scale!

“I'm appalled to read this.”

Do you mean what they’ve done rather than me saying I’d seek legal advice?

“If I were in your shoes, I'd probably ignore them. It won't be worth their while to try to pursue it with any legal action.”

Ah yes, the one time I phoned a solicitor’s about something, they advised me to wait until if/when the other party started legal proceedings against me (they didn’t) because even advice would cost me.

I'm appalled to read this.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably ignore them. It won't be worth their while to try to pursue it with any legal action.

My local group closed with much public handwringing on their Facebook page about wanting to be inclusive and kind. A transwoman from nowhere near the area is on their facebook page thanking them for their solidarity. AFAIK they didn't have any trans identifying members in the first place. I think they are planning on starting up again outside of WI.

“The ballot box was immediately removed by our official visitor and she counted the votes in private, refusing anyone overseeing the count. (the manager of our meeting place, who is not a WI member, could have done this as an inpartial observer). She then told us that we'd voted out so our group was, as of that moment, no longer part of the WI, and neither was our healthy bank balance
.….

The room in which we met had been prepaid for several months in advance so we plan to carry on meeting there for the moment. But the national federation has decreed this an "inappropriate use of moneys" and has demanded we repay them the amount we've paid to advance book (as well as already having taken our money, which was of course stuff that we'd raised with our monthly raffle, cake sales etc as well as the subs).“

Wow, this all seems like rather suspect behaviour! Is it a lot of money they are asking to be repaid? If so, I would be thinking about seeking legal advice! And as for inappropriate use of money, well the irony is off the scale!

No one forces you to be in a church or chapel, no one forces you to celebrate Christmas.

Very different from sharing a changing room with someone born male who still has a penis, which is what TWAW advocates. Very different from sharing an event about women's health which someone cannot possibly go through as they are not born female.

Oh 100%. It's the rights impact that is the issue for me. It's not what people believe in their own heads or chapels, it's when society foreces everyone else to fit into the shapes that one belief puts them into.

I'll have a search.

Do you have the link to where on MN this is?

Jenny Janet Murray has written a couple of articles about the WI.
IIRC, she also posted on this forum asking women in the WI to get in touch with her.

There are unlikely to be any fees paid in advance at this point in the year - fees for the next year are due on 1 April, and they disbanded rather than sign the form which we have to sign to remain members and pay our fees.

But the national federation has decreed this an "inappropriate use of moneys" and has demanded we repay them the amount we've paid to advance book (as well as already having taken our money, which was of course stuff that we'd raised with our monthly raffle, cake sales etc as well as the subs).

Surely if some of that money membership fees for a year, and that are now telling those who have paid the membership fee you have to leave, they should re-imburse you based on how many months since they sent the money.

They have changed the rules on which you gave them money, and telling you you are no longer welcome they should pay a refund.

(Sorry, not necessarily something top most on your mind, but it all seems so arrogant and complacent. No expression of regrent that their mismanagement has created this situation.)

More details about the night we folded:

The woman who came from the upper echelons to oversee our vote knew in advance what the result was going to be, inasmuch as an informal vote via whatsapp amongst group members had been about 75:25 against signing the new declaration.

Some people who were unable to attend the formal meeting had submitted a vote in advanceto the chair, via email.

The rest of us - I think about 65% of the total membership - were there in person on the night and almost all voted. The ballot box was immediately removed by our official visitor and she counted the votes in private, refusing anyone overseeing the count. (the manager of our meeting place, who is not a WI member, could have done this as an inpartial observer). She then told us that we'd voted out so our group was, as of that moment, no longer part of the WI, and neither was our healthy bank balance.

She did NOT tell us the figures for the vote and having subsequently been formally asked for this info, has refused to give it. So we don't actually know the result of the vote, other than that we were out! We don't even know if the count was honest since she refused any second sets of eyes

The room in which we met had been prepaid for several months in advance so we plan to carry on meeting there for the moment. But the national federation has decreed this an "inappropriate use of moneys" and has demanded we repay them the amount we've paid to advance book (as well as already having taken our money, which was of course stuff that we'd raised with our monthly raffle, cake sales etc as well as the subs).

Yes, for many people the indecent haste in which the WI forced this change through was the last straw, and I believe that some who were prepared to accept TIM into meetings voted against continuing because of the shoddy way in which the WI has treated its members over this.

But I don't want to be included in any fake figures from the WI or any other organisaiont that suggests that we all left because we want to be transinclusive. It's simply not true.

I can answer this one ! In the case (Linda’s) Smith V Northumberland Police it was held that Gender Ideology was a partisan belief That is one that is not impartial. In the Edinburgh rape centre case it was said that believing TWAW and the reverse is on the extremes of gender ideology.

The WI constitution says it must be non religious and non sectarian. Sectarian is another word for extreme partisan.

so just like the Northumberland police (or any other police) could not be shown to be partisan ( due to an Act forbidding it ) by taking part in a parade , the wi cannot be , due to its constitution.

so one belief (GC ) is not partisan but mainstream and therefore permitted by the constitution.

in addition whether gender ideology be considered a belief under the equality act depends on whether it fulfills the test set out in the case Grainger PLC v Nicholson. These are

1. The belief must be genuinely held.
2. It must be a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available.
3. It must be a belief as to a weighty and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour.
4. It must attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance.
5. It must be worthy of respect in a democratic society, be not incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others

The last criteria makes it difficult for me to believe that GI could be considered a belief as it conflicts with the fundamental rights of others.

I don’t think it can be under 3 either - certain level of seriousness anyone . To me GI is akin to flat earthism and young earth creationism.

But I don’t think this has ever been tested in law.

Of course the WI, post FWS, is trans-inclusive. Trans-identified females are welcome.
I think that pub might fold if FSU got involved.

If my WI branch ends up not shutting down next week, we're going to have a venue problem, as the pub that currently hosts us says it won't allow an organisation that's not "trans-inclusive" to book a room.

Does anyone have any ideas on the legal position here - basically they are saying they won't host a single sex group. I've seen suggestions in other contexts (i.e refusing a booking for an all-female hen party) that this would count as indirect discrimination, is that correct?