Girlguiding - So HTF did you know what was going on then ?

Unfortunately, those who run girl guides are so far gone down the ideology path I don’t trust there won’t be any malicious compliance (like the data excuse).

As an aside, I think it’s also grossly unfair that boys don’t have a counterpart that’s just for them either. Scouts and boys brigades are now unisex. We’ve really muddied society and what both sexes need the past decade.

Begs the question, why can trans girls (trans identified males) join those?

Every message that comes out just muddies the water further.
I run Brownies and help at Rainbows. If someone registers their child and completes all the online form there is no further requirement on me to check anything. I’ve never checked a birth certificate. I’ve never been asked to. In my 10 years as a leader I have never seen a child anything other than fully clothed at Brownies. I would have no idea what they were assigned at birth. A child of 10 or under is pretty hard to know either way. I’ve had Brownies who wear jeans and the uniform top, shorter hair, traditionally male name. They seem to enjoy our meetings so I don’t really care how they identify. I’m certainly not going to start asking ‘are you a girl really?’

It gets more complex with older children but equally, if everyone registered as a young member is ‘assumed’ to be female, I can’t work out where the information is coming from about trans members. We don’t know that detail!
Regardless, it will be spun however those with an axe to grind want to spin it.

It was never about children - it was (and is) about adult men.

Doesn't this whole shitshow demonstrate how much damage these men have done? Time after time, they've tried to colonise anything female.

It's such a relief to finally see #nodebate abandoned and society allowed to comment on why this has happened and point out the safeguarding risks.

It didn't have to be like this. But from the outset trans activists glommed onto anything related to with women, girls or children (with GG being one of the 1st organisations to get their attention. The level of arrogance from these men lecturing well established organisations on men's rights end entitlement beggars belief.

Resulting in these organisations ending up in this incoherent mess with many smaller groups (lesbians, women's health, women's support & social groups) simply shutting down to avoid harassment and abuse from these men.

It's unforgivable.

It’s a really stupid statement to make. We trust volunteers so we won’t bother with DBS checks anymore. We trust volunteers so we will get rid of all policies relating to your vision ratios …..

Much better to have said “we expect our volunteers to comply with the policies of the organisation…”

Some activist eejit at HQ probably thinks they have done something clever here.

It’s not weird to provide ID to join an organisation. If you’re responsible for safeguarding children, it’s a very good idea to confirm who they are, and as PP have said, ages are relevant too. If a child joins a sports club, for example, they have to prove their age, so it’s not a big ask for the guides.

Will action be taken against volunteers who ignore this change and refuse to leave?
We trust Girlguiding volunteers...

Blindly trusting volunteers isn't the best safeguarding practice out there, is it? On any front.

That's known as a conflict of interests and putting personal interest ahead of the charitable aims.

It wouldn't surprise me if one of the governing body or leadership group of Girl Guides has a cross dressing husband and/or a trans identifying son ( the same with the WI). I cannot imagine what else might possibly have caused those responsible to get embroiled in this ludicrous situation.

My suspicion is 'trans boys' was and is a bit of a smoke screen for men wanting to be girl guide leaders.

This with brass knobs on!!!

Didn't you have to provide ID when your child started school?
Edited to add, and anyone joining the housing register at a local authority, for example, has to provide ID for children who are included as well as parents, so it's usual these days to provide ID for all sorts of things.

Well it would’ve been weird until about five minutes ago. But then somebody made up a problem, bien-pensant opinion went along with it, and now here we are.

My suspicion is 'trans boys' was and is a bit of a smoke screen for men wanting to be girl guide leaders.

GG as an organisation probably don't know how many boys have joined, but individual groups will know if they have boys attending. Would parents of these boys really want to cause a scene by continuing to send their sons?

They are not going to but would be interested to know why you think it wouldn’t be a positive step?

I agree. I’ve never been asked for this and don’t feel this is a positive step. They’ve got themselves into a guddle but I don’t believe asking for birth certs going forward is a good move.

Maybe because I've only been to small local things, but mine just ask the parents and trust their answers.

My record just says "Gender: Woman"

I have often wondered what the scale of the issue actually is. In school, there are more "transboys" than "transgirls", so females using male identities is more common, but still less than 1% of each group. The proportion of transgirls who would want to sign up to a female "single gender" organisation compared to mixed sex options like Scouting is probably also quite low. I suspect that HQ are inflating the impact on the numbers in the organisation, and also it's a vocal minority.

It's right that Guiding have had to revert back to a clear single sex policy for safeguarding, and their lack of transparancy in recent years has been a dreadful policy.

"How will this policy work in practice? Will volunteers be expected to carry out additional checks or ask for proof?
Girlguiding has already let all parents and carers know about what this change means for current young members. We are not asking volunteers to carry out any additional checks or ask questions. We have centrally updated our new joiner process to make it clear that Girlguiding young membership is open to girls and that for the purposes of membership and in line with the Equality Act 2010 this means those whose sex at birth is female. Volunteers will not need to ask questions or carry out any checks.

Will action be taken against volunteers who ignore this change and refuse to leave?
We trust Girlguiding volunteers. Girlguiding has a code of conduct that must be met by all members and volunteers. If someone chooses to stay in a role which they know they are no longer eligible for, then this would be reviewed and investigated as part of our normal complaints procedure.

How should volunteers check that trans girls have left?
We are not asking volunteers to carry out any additional checks. Girlguiding is committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect. We are communicating openly with parents and carers and have made it clear that trans girls can stay at Girlguiding until 6 September."

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/updates-for-our-members/equality-diversity-support/

It’s not unusual to confirm age especially when there are age restrictions to membership or for liability purposes for certain activities.

Really? Considering the potential of away stays, I would say it should be standard.

Well if it's single sex then you can find it odd and either decide to suck it up for a legitimate reason or you could decide your daughter won't join.

Simple.

I would find that kinda odd as a parent, if a social group demanded to see a birth certificate to register my kid.

Quite.

if they don't collect the data, how do they know there are any boys affected, at all? How do they even know it's an issue?

Birth certificates are needed for the kids - they can't change them.

The adults are bloody obvious.