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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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EdithStourton · 21/03/2026 20:20

India and Jenni: polar opposites in the common sense and dignity stakes.

FranticFrankie · 21/03/2026 18:30

To gloat after a woman dies is despicable, but then IW isn't one to hold back is he?
Horrible self centred person

powershowerforanhour · 21/03/2026 15:53

RIP Jenni, the calm voice of reason.

lcakethereforeIam · 21/03/2026 15:47

Suzanne Moore on Jenni Murray and what she thinks about Harriet Harman

https://archive.ph/50iTF

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/jenni-murray-bravery-trans-debate/

Lovely picture they've used.

When, in the fullness of time, HH shuffles of this mortal coil will people say that her advocacy for PIE doesn't detract from all the good she did*. Because it absolutely does.

*I'm sure there must be something.

It is a travesty not to celebrate Jenni Murray’s bravery in the trans debate

Some commentators, including Harriet Harman, have suggested the radio host’s views detracted from her feminism. But they were key to it

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/jenni-murray-bravery-trans-debate/

BlueLegume · 21/03/2026 14:59

Can we just leave IW out of this? Giving him airtime when the memory of Jenni should be the most important thing. What he posted post her death was a hideous self congratulatory speech which dripped with no ability to read the room at all. The fact he said he thought it would be a light hearted/showbiz type interview tells you how little men understood how important WH was to us.

Westfacing · 21/03/2026 14:02

I'm glad she at least lived to hear the Supreme Court ruling

Westfacing · 21/03/2026 13:59

“India held firmly to her belief that she was a ‘real woman’, ignoring the fact that she had spent all of her life before her transition enjoying the privileged position in our society generally accorded to a man. In a discussion about the Dorchester hotel’s demands that its female staff should always wear makeup, have a manicure and wear stockings over shaved legs, she was perfectly happy to go along with such requirements. There wasn’t a hint of understanding that she was simply playing into the stereotype – a man’s idea of what a woman should be.”

I remember listening to that WH broadcast - Willy was saying how Jennie was wrong and she retorted with words to the effect 'I've been at this game longer than you!'

Probably about the last time I seriously tuned in to WH

ProfessorRedshoeblueshoe · 21/03/2026 13:13

I also think the family kept it quiet for a week so they didn't have to put up with TRA's gloating.

ProfessorRedshoeblueshoe · 21/03/2026 13:11

Harriet Harman - the woman who advocated for PIE.
I also stopped listening to WH after she left. I'd love to know how much the listening figures dropped after she left.

LizzieSiddal · 21/03/2026 12:51

senua · 21/03/2026 12:23

Can I point out that it was Nick Robinson who asked HH about the trans debate. As others have said, the rest of the BBC have shied away from mentioning it but NR understands (as does Justin Webb).
He asked the question but didn't press the point. I think that this was a good stance to take: raise the matter but don't spoil JM's tribute.

Agree it was Nick who bright this up and was very pleased he did. HH ignored the question.

senua · 21/03/2026 12:23

ItsCoolForCats · 21/03/2026 09:40

I've just listened, thank you. FFS, Harriet Harman saying the trans debate was controversial, and Jenni Murray was a protagonist in the debate, but then suggesting that this didn't take away from all the "good" stuff she had done before that. Harriet Harman is an absolute snake, who clearly believes she has the moral high ground on this issue.

Can I point out that it was Nick Robinson who asked HH about the trans debate. As others have said, the rest of the BBC have shied away from mentioning it but NR understands (as does Justin Webb).
He asked the question but didn't press the point. I think that this was a good stance to take: raise the matter but don't spoil JM's tribute.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 21/03/2026 11:54

ItsCoolForCats · 21/03/2026 11:29

It is so fucking falling that he is considered by some people to be marginalised and oppressed, when his sheer misogyny, ageism and every other type of vitriol he spews has always been there on full display.

Well I suppose some people may pity him as he is so unlikeable and unemployable but I would argue he isnt marginalised as he could choose not to be a complete arsehole as it is not his trans identity that makes him unlikeable and untalented...I suspect he was unlikeable long before his transformation.

ItsCoolForCats · 21/03/2026 11:29

SternJoyousBeev2 · 21/03/2026 10:40

I didn’t think Willoughby could sink any further in my contempt for his character but thanks to that useful but if background from @Datun , he has. He is a vindicative, nasty, narcissistic jealous shitbag with no talent. He thought he was destined to be a media darling like some of the high profile LGB media personalities but as he has no personality (certainly not a personable one) or talent he has failed.

It is so fucking falling that he is considered by some people to be marginalised and oppressed, when his sheer misogyny, ageism and every other type of vitriol he spews has always been there on full display.

Datun · 21/03/2026 11:18

Totally agree SternJoyousBeev2.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 21/03/2026 10:40

I didn’t think Willoughby could sink any further in my contempt for his character but thanks to that useful but if background from @Datun , he has. He is a vindicative, nasty, narcissistic jealous shitbag with no talent. He thought he was destined to be a media darling like some of the high profile LGB media personalities but as he has no personality (certainly not a personable one) or talent he has failed.

Datun · 21/03/2026 10:29

ItsCoolForCats · 21/03/2026 09:40

I've just listened, thank you. FFS, Harriet Harman saying the trans debate was controversial, and Jenni Murray was a protagonist in the debate, but then suggesting that this didn't take away from all the "good" stuff she had done before that. Harriet Harman is an absolute snake, who clearly believes she has the moral high ground on this issue.

If I recall correctly, what sparked Jenni off on air was interviewing India Willoughby.

An article had just come out about how women working at the Dorchester, I believe, were told they had to wear tights.

Jenni asked Willoughby what he thought. And he said of course they should wear tights otherwise it's dirty (as in grubby).

She then said so if men don't wear tights are they dirty? And he did his usual looking stupid reaction and said no of course not.

Afterwards, when he realised how people were reacting, he called her a dinosaur and vowed to get her sacked.

And the other instance was a man who had transitioned to become a woman, in the clergy. I can't remember what rank it was.

Jenni asked him about women in the clergy, and attitudes to it, and what did he think about the historical sexism. He sounded like he genuinely didn't understand the question, presumably had never given it the smallest bloody thought. He just banged on about what dress he might wear to greet his congregation on the first day.

Jenni was fired and she wrote an article explaining everything.

So no, Harriet Harman, it's not fucking controversial, is it?

Harriet Harman. Soo far behind the curve, it's arcing back in front of her.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 21/03/2026 10:28

Agree @Datun that was a lovely read.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/03/2026 10:24

ItsCoolForCats · 21/03/2026 09:40

I've just listened, thank you. FFS, Harriet Harman saying the trans debate was controversial, and Jenni Murray was a protagonist in the debate, but then suggesting that this didn't take away from all the "good" stuff she had done before that. Harriet Harman is an absolute snake, who clearly believes she has the moral high ground on this issue.

it was such a cuntish thing to say wasn't it

'the fact that, <sadface> she refused to allow herself to be bullied by people she'd previously counted as friends into lying that men can become women the absolute nazi bigot, didn't detract from everything she achieved but it also kind of did amirite' (I maybe paraphrasing HH thoughts)

MuckyBrass · 21/03/2026 10:22

DavefromtheShed · 21/03/2026 07:16

Looking back over the late 80s and into the 90s she was part of a very high class Radio 4.
I remember Brian Redhead, Sue MacGregor and Jenni Murray contributed to that high standard in different programs. As others have said WH changed producers declined rapidly, then she left.

At times her pro women stance appeared as anti-men. Did she really cope well with giving birth to a boy, an enemy?

She wrote and spoke a great deal about being a mother to boys and how much she loved them and how being their mother delighted and challenged her. She was clearly extremely proud of them and adored them. I remember she did at least one WH special episode about being a mum of boys, loving boys and all the happiness it brought as well as the difficulties, including how it informed her thinking as a feminist (Jane Garvey, who has two girls, then did a mirror episode on mothers and daughters the week after, if I remember correctly - bbc balance in action!)

Datun · 21/03/2026 10:19

hholiday · 21/03/2026 06:03

Her last column for the Mail was only published a couple of weeks ago – she was always so wise and full of good sense, which is precisely what WH (and the wider BBc) misses now. It feels as if there’s real affection in several of the tribute pieces – the Mail one, as you’d expect. And this one from The Telegraph does not dodge the trans issue, unlike the BBC – disgraceful trans dodgers to the end: archive.ph/kEMRw

That is an excellent article. I urge anyone to read it.

The woman was unique.

TWETMIRF · 21/03/2026 10:07

RIP Jenni, you will be missed

SternJoyousBeev2 · 21/03/2026 09:49

Harriet Harman can go fuck herself.

ItsCoolForCats · 21/03/2026 09:40

borntobequiet · 21/03/2026 09:26

Just after 08:35

I've just listened, thank you. FFS, Harriet Harman saying the trans debate was controversial, and Jenni Murray was a protagonist in the debate, but then suggesting that this didn't take away from all the "good" stuff she had done before that. Harriet Harman is an absolute snake, who clearly believes she has the moral high ground on this issue.