How Trans Activism Became So Radical

Yes. Once you've wandered around FWR for a while and see how the scolders perform, their incoherence and lack of credible narratives / rationale are so evident amidst their word salads.
It's also good to see the majority of those who post on the Times, Telegraph etc are also very clear eyed about all the nonsense. They name it accurately and most give zero fucks about pandering to any of it.

We've still a mountain to climb given how deeply this ideology is embedded in organisations but as every single tribunal case demonstrates, behind all this is a tsunami of misogyny, anti child safeguarding and a disdain for the rights of others.

Agree. The activists had to demand No debate' and 'Acceptance without exception' because any debate or scrutiny showed their men's rights and fetish movement for what it was.
Any ideology which starts from that position is doomed. It was only the bullying and intimidation of women that allowed transgenderism to take the hold it did. It was bound to crumble as soon as people started to see the mission creep and get past the smears that anyone who questioned it was a right-wing nut-job or 'transphobe'.
Also agree with @GallantKumquat that Helen Joyce's book Trans is still the best takedown of the ideology.
Thank heavens for groups like Sex Matters and Women's Rights Network who are now doing the hard graft of weeding out the woo-woo!

Yes - and this speaks to the dizzying reversals and denials of previously stated "trans facts". I know that recently we've been told that it's not sex change but is gender change so there's no no need to worry about the fact that nobody can change sex as that's not what trans people are saying.... 🙄🙄

As far back as 2012, threads on FRW were warning against TRA. Trans threads were 'contentious' even then. I'm sorry that your thread was missed Holdmecloser, if it were picked up by FRW at the time, you'd have recieved lots of support and practical advice.

The success of TRA has been its ability to have lots of, often conflicting, rationale. So, it could be actual sex change; gender not sex; people trying to get at close to their desired sex through surgery and hormones; expanding the definition of women and men; dsd of the brain; intersex; this man looks so much like a woman, why wouldn't you treat him as one; stop imposing beauty standards on trans people, he's no less of a women for having a beard, and one that seems to work in court, he believes he's female.

So in any given situation, with any given man, it could be argued that he is a woman. What will happen is the rationale will change - so hormones and being marginalised become important for sport, not gender. Gender is important in book groups, not surgery.

That and the idea that, to maintain a private life, a man's sex should not be declared. He can be obviously male, but no one is allowed to acknowledge it.

Yes. It would appear there are 2 golden idols in this world that cannot be criticised. "trans" and "islam" both operate on the level of blasphemy laws, they have been granted sacred status by men. And are oddly similar, both of these ideologies are hugely male privileging, disparaging and downgrading women and girls. Both demand that everyone agree with them on pain of severe violent punishment and that the law must support their every demand, no matter how extreme. Both treat women as a servant class, only needed for procreation.

Which is of course the most classic male pattern behaviour. "trans" is mostly just another aspect of patriarchy, men getting their revenge on women for us daring to expect equality and fairness. Another way men show us how much they hate us and how much more power they have than women - like "black face" and "minstrel" shows when Black power was fighting for equality. Men will fight to the death to hang on to their privilege.

I can imagine.

I think some of us venture into AIBU threads when we see them. Five years ago, it would feel like you were needing a shield of extreme confidence to enter though because there were a lot of posters who would complain about another thread about trans people or would be very happy to declare people bigoted and hateful. There has been a change though. As more discussion has been had, and situations such as Isla Bryson etc have occurred.

I hope your daughter and her friends got good support from you and in the end, from those who had the role to protect her at school from what had happened.

I don't think I was aware of the Feminism board on here back them so I can only assume it was AIBU or Chat. But if I recall correctly, the vast majority were not helpful at all.

I started posting on here at about that time because it was the only place I could find where you could actually have a discussion about this and challenge the line that men were women if they said they were.

I think it might have been different on other parts of mumsnet like AIBU.

That's awful - I'm sorry that happened.

The first discussions I remember being involved with on here (FWR) were in 2016/2017, when the Olympics rule change (testosterone < 10) came in, and women were starting to say hang on a minute, WTF!?

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This is also good from ArtyMorty's reply:

"Trans really is not a legitimate social movement in the sense of a fight for equality for a fundamental, rightful, material category of people.

And it should never have been framed as that kind of thing.

Your mistake is even comparing it to women's rights and civil rights when it's better off being compared to other categories of things, such as, say, the right for people with anorexia to have access to compassionate, proper medical treatment for their condition (with the optimal outcome for all anorexics being CURING them of it), or the right of Scientologists to believe whatever cockamamie theories they want about themselves, but at the same time recognizing that their religion is cult-like and extreme and not to be taken at face-value in the secular sphere (with, again, the optimal outcome for Sceintologists being for them all to ESCAPE from it).

Humans cannot change sex, and the desire to do so is almost entirely rooted in sexual paraphilia, internalized homophobia ("ego-dystonic" homosexuality, or gays & lesbians who badly want to escape the label "homosexual", usually for cultural reasons), and other maladaptive, socially and psychiatrically un-ideal reasons.

Many (though not all) of the movement's fundamental objectives were illiberal and unethical right from their dubious foundations, which lay in a kind of gray area between fantasy and reality, and between appeasing mental health disorders and holistically treating them."

And Eva Kurilova's piece is excellent and has such great explanations and examples. Just adding the link again here for myself and in case anyone missed it. Thank you Utopia.

www.evakurilova.com/p/trans-is-nothing-new-and-neither

Really? On this board? Or on AIBU?

I am horrified that your daughter and her friends were treated this way and that the school also allowed that boy into the female changing rooms.

As I wrote on another thread some time ago, I actually watched this unfold on Mumsnet 5 years ago when my daughter was 15 at secondary school.

My daughter had numerous mental health issues and consequently ended up with a set of female friends with similar issues. A lad joined the school and inserted himself into her friendship group, showing loads of empathy and compassion for their problems.

I was in the bath one night when my daughter knocked and asked to come in and speak to me. It transpired that this lad had weaponised these girls issues, continuing to messaging them outside of school hours to ask how they were etc but this soon descended into him sending most of them dick pics.

During this time, be had changed his name to a female one, claimed he was a girl and my daughter had to share female changing rooms with him. She was understandably really upset by it all.

I came on MN that night explaining the situation and asking for advice and was shot down with a shit load of posts called me a bigot, Transphobic, how dare I refer to a young lad as predatory and my post was swiftly deleted. No support whatsoever, only accusations of bigotry. I genuinely couldn't believe that nobody could see this for what it was.

Thankfully now the vast majority of posters have their blinkers off but to be on the arse end of this and see my daughters concerns invalidated in favour of men appalled me.

Thank you!! That is very interesting.

This is a brilliant read. I read it earlier and it is a great archive with some brilliant work from women.

The whole transgender thesis is by nature a radical proposal...one that flies against reality and common understandings - the world over. To try to get it to 'fly' in the face of reality one has to employ radical means in order to attempt to totally subvert that reality.

It is not a reasonable proposition and so reasonable means won't work.

I was horrified at how many male offenders with transgender identities got non custodial sentences based on their vulnerability and then offended again soon after.

What I found was that they were being treated with discrimination - in a positive discrimination situation. That their legal representation successfully argued that they were vulnerable so convinced judges to not give custodial sentences, where I would have thought custodial sentences would have been given to a person who was did not have a transgender identity.

Lenient sentencing for trans perps was one of the key missions of the main UK lobbying organisation in the UK in the 1990's, "Press for Change". They achieved this by cosying-up to the Judiciary, legislators and anyone else with influence.

Mission Statement
Statement of Aims and Objectives
The rights and liberties of transgendered people in the U.K.

May 1994 (updated Nov. 1994, June 1996)
Press for Change is a political lobbying and educational organisation, which campaigns to achieve equal civil rights and liberties for all transsexual and transgender people in the U.K. through legislation and social change.

Transsexual : A transsexual is a person having the physical characteristics of one sex and the psychological characteristics of the other. [New Oxford Dictionary 1992]

4.00 "Press For Change" campaigning

4.10 The right to have transsexual status taken into account when being sentenced, so that a non-custodial sentence is given whenever permissible, because of the additional difficulties faced by transsexual people in prisons.

4.11 The right (when applicable) to be sent to a prison appropriate to the individual's proper gender, whether pre- or post-treatment, if he or she has been previously living in this gender.

4.12 The right to continue to receive medical treatment for transsexualism whilst in prison.

7.00 The Methods of the "Press For Change" Campaign

7.01 Any legal method of attaining our goals is acceptable, and no particular strategy is laid down centrally, in order to encourage as much individual and grass roots activity as possible.

7.02 The following initiatives are currently being co-ordinated by the committee:

• A Parliamentary Forum of M.P.s from all political parties, committed to supporting a change to the law through Parliament.
• The establishment of a group of legal professionals committed to challenging discriminatory legislation through the British and/or European Courts.
• The establishment of a group of medical professionals familiar with current best practice in the treatment of transsexualism, who are willing to endorse the view that transsexual people are neither insane nor perverted, but are people with an inherent intersex condition, who are generally able, if appropriately treated, of leading full and constructive lives within society.
• The establishment of a group of Bishops and other religious leaders willing to support the rights of transsexual people.
• The establishment of a group of supportive Members of the European Parliament.
• Affiliation to the National Council of Civil Liberties.
• Liaison with the Trade Unions, asking that they affiliate to Press for Change and include "gender identity" in their equal opportunities policies.
• Liaison with the committee of Pride (in 1996 "Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered Pride" to ensure transgender people are properly represented and included in this important event.
• A petition to be signed by the public and presented to the government.
• Regular articles and television appearances attempting to put forward a positive image of transsexual people and highlight the injustices we suffer.
• The co-ordination and dissemination of up-to-date information about transsexualism and about related civil rights and legal issues, to transgender people themselves, to the public and to relevant professionals, including the publication of books and training materials as appropriate.
• The provision of leaflets, posters and a campaigning pack, free of charge to any person or organization prepared to campaign in any way on behalf of transsexual people.
• The publication of regular updates on the campaign, distributed to all transsexual organizations, and to any individual or group who is actively involved, on request.
• Fund-raising as necessary. Please note that all money donated goes directly to the campaign - there are no paid staff. See separate Financial Policy and Procedure.

Put this link into https://web.archive.org

www.pfc.org.uk/campaign/pfcaims.htm

Westminster Roll Call

The roll call of MPs in all parties who support or are aware of the Press for Change campaign grows week by week, as transsexuals, their families and friends tell us about meetings and correspondence they've had with their local politicians.

The list is far from complete, as we can only post those names we know about .. but if a name is missing, all it takes is an email ..

We also have a growing list of famous-name patrons. People who have kindly agreed to allow their names to be associated with the Press for Change campaign.
Last update : 10th April, 1996

Put this link into https://web.archive.org

http://www.pfc.org.uk/politics/pfcroll.htm

ps. The PFC Mission Statement was written by "AKW" - a trans identified woman.

Alex Whinnom
PFC Vice-President

Put this link into https://web.archive.org

http://www.pfc.org.uk/campaign/people/awhinnom.htm

Robin Morgan's speech resonates:

'No, I will not call a male “she;” thirty-two years of suffering in the androcentric society, and of surviving, have earned me the name “woman”; one walk down the street by a male transvestite, five minutes of his being hassled (which he may enjoy), and then he dares, he dares to think he understands our pain? No, in our mothers’ names and in our own, we must not call him sister. We know what’s at work when whites wear blackface; the same is at work when men wear drag.'

This bit resonated with me

The term Women’s Recording Company, women’s anything for that matter, has been a term that I’ve come to trust and respond to. You at Olivia have violated that trust; not only because you’ve hired a non-woman, but also because you chose to decide for me that that was alright, and continued to trade as a “women’s” recording company. I am stunned by the audacity of your making such a decision for your consumers.

I see 'women's' anything and I think, 'really, is it really?'. Sometimes they make it easy by tagging on 'and non-binary', then you know it includes men. It seems now it is rare to see 'anyone who identifies as a woman', perhaps because of the SC. However, I can't trust that 'women' means 'women only'. If I decide to waste my time again complaining about 'women only' that includes men the above quote will come in handy.

Absolutely fascinating reading, thank you for this