Kellie-Jay Keen (AKA Posie Parker) removed from IWD event by police

because I've met a bunch of autistic people that are also trans.

Perhaps it's time you started joining the dot's, there's a reason why so many autistic people have been sucked into this cult.

Oh well that’s fine then. Let’s let those men into women’s spaces. And then the other vulnerable men too to be fair no? The short ones, young ones, old ones, sick ones…. Maybe the unhappy ones as it would be unfair to keep them out….

Get a grip. Your friend might be lovely but I don’t want any men in women’s single sex spaces and we are all within our rights (legal and human) to insist

ETA Ive enough shit to deal with with the “vulnerable”-yet still somehow still aggressive and horribly argumentative to the point of abusive in my own life. It goes with the territory and is completely unrelated to trans identities. I have no interest in letting these chaps who don’t understand when they’re being ghastly into women’s spaces because they’re autistic

She was absolutely patient and kind to this person. Where was the verbal abuse?

That's the one. I don't think it is restrained to pick on and film a random person who has not done anything wrong. I think KJK was looking for an argument from my friend to prove that transwomen are dangerous and actually found out how clearly vulnerable some (probably many) transpeople are. I read or saw something recently that had some statistics on the amount of transpeople that have mental illness or neurodiversity and it's a lot. Unless a transperson was posing an actual threat to me or another woman, I would probably assume that they're autistic and vulnerable because I've met a bunch of autistic people that are also trans.

Coldplay? Now that was cruel.

I keep meaning to leave this thread...

100% agree with you, @SionnachRuadh. I've been saying the same for years. Words have meanings, and if you misuse them, the meaning is, eventually, blunted or lost.

I find the whole thing annoyingly tribal - I don't need or want heroes to look up to. I can and do form my own opinions without having to adopt wholesale those of anyone else. When someone has an interesting point of view I'm capable of hearing it and examining it for what it is.

One final point.
There was something upthread, some sort of thought experiment, about someone being thrown out for calling someone morbidly obese, with a parallel being made between this and whatever KJK said or did before she was thrown out of the IWD event.

It's a ridiculous comparison. Pointing out that someone is morbidly obese is, on the whole, needlessly rude - though it might be relevant at, say, a riding stables when there is no horse of the appropriate size and type to carry 20st of human (though most riding school instructors are more tactful).

Pointing out that someone is a bloke, or objecting to the presence of blokes, in organisations dedicated (apparently) to women is entirely justifiable, because the maleness of those individuals means that the aims of the organisations have changed, and they are no longer exclusively female.

I am, of course, using 'women' and 'female' in the original sense of 'the large gamete people', not the 'whoever says they are' version.

I think we've all become desensitised over the years to TRAs calling us all far right, and indeed tribal lefties here on FWR calling everyone who isn't a tribal lefty far right. The problem is not just that it's untrue and annoying.

I've been on another thread today providing evidence of how Rupert Lowe's organisation is linked to extreme-right and white nationalist circles, and some posters have reflexively responded with "we don't care, that's just purity spiralling, that's just smears, Rupert is saying things we like on trans and that's good enough for us to applaud him".

This is the result of years of crying wolf. And the same people are still crying wolf. And when the wolf arrives they'll still be wanging on about KJK.

@MissScarletInTheBedroom
posters here who are disproportionately noisy in their aggressive stance.
Bloody fucking hell.
Never seen footage of TRAs on a day out?

Restating it all clearly is never a waste of time @EdithStourton

Speaking for myself, I am not anti trans people. I want them to have fulfilled and happy lives, with proper access to benefits, employment, etc etc.

Transphobia is hating trans people for being trans people and wishing them ill.

However, I am not happy with the damage that trans ideology has done to women's rights and to children. In no particular order:
Natal men in women's sports - they have a massive unfair advantage even when on oestrogen etc;
Natal men in women's prisons - far too dangerous and a massive loophole;
Natal men in women toilets, changing rooms etc - again, a massive loophole though which dangerous men or men with unpleasant fetishes can contentedly stroll;
Natal men in women's groups and clubs - their presence will shift the tone;
The impact on the minds and bodies of children and vulnerable young adults, with irreversible surgeries and drugs with irreversible impacts being given to very young people who would never, for example, have been considered old enough to make decisions about sterilisation.

All those concerns are not transphobia. It is not transphobic to be suspicious of men who wish to be in women's spaces (because how can you tell who is 'true trans' and who has nefarious intentions?). Resenting TRAs who try to intrude into female spaces isn't transphobic either.

Women need women-only spaces. We are physically weaker than men (hence separate provision in sports, prisons, toilets). Many of us have been sexually assaulted, and would much prefer to change, or go to the loo, well away from the male gaze. We want to to talk about medical issues amongst ourselves. And so on.

MN has not been 'captured by anti-trans ideology'.
It's a space where women who share the concerns that I have outlined above can get together to discuss them. For a long time, we had to be careful what we said, or our posts were deleted or we got booted. It was a conversation that it was very hard to have. Women were pilloried and doxxed for trying to have it. The left-wing press completely betrayed women, and we haven't forgotten.

And you probably know all that, so you've effectively wasted my time.

I looked through KJK's twitter feed; I couldn't find anything that I would classify as white nationalism. Maybe I missed it, but if I did I submit it can't be very obvious. There were some anti-Islam posts; I don't think that's the same thing though.

I watched a video in which she said that unions were all mysoginistic, and that it was a waste of time joining the Gala, because of this or words to that effect. Which i do not disagree with, totally

i posted on your thread about the gala, and PM you under a different name, as i am going this year and will try and find LWS if they have a contingency, they can walk under or behind our miners wives banner for protection.

I was not having a go.

If it's easy to find then why is that you cannot even post one single example on here?
You should be able to list at least ten examples if there are so many readily available and yet you cannot?

You're just using the age-old mud-slinging trick.

Most people have moved on from that - probably because most people are fed up being called far right, neo-nazis etc because they don't want men with a fetish in women only spaces, because they don't want grown men in dresses having access to other people's children and they don't want men oppressing women - anywhere - not just here.

I couldn’t give a single fuck what the idiot handmaidens of “Jezebel” think about anything, least of all what they pontificate about Mumsnet. Hope that helps.

Yes, quite telling I think.

"Posy did not support LWS contingency at the Durham miners Gala because, they were attacked by unison contingency and i was cross that they were not backed up. (I was not there that year)"

I was not there either but I was part of the team organising the "LWS contingent". I was in touch with them during the day, and long afterwards with regard to one of the LWS women being head-butted by a woman who was with the Unison delegation.

KJK was not there either.

What do you mean by, "they were not backed up" by KJK?

There was a lot of discussion locally about what happened and I do not recall anyone saying at any point that they did not feel supported by KJK.

She did ! In 2019.

I mean, MyAmpleSheep, on this board we have been seeing the exact same accusations for years now. And they really have just been replicated across the internet by people who should know better but never investigated.

I went through the Pesutto dossier at the time and looked into every accusation and posted on the Deeming threads.

I know.

https://archive.is/s77Wn

Here is the article. It is from 2019. There has been plenty of time for any sin pages, or wikipedia or articles to be adjusted.

The judge in the Deeming v Pesutto case was frustrated that the interview (played in the court room) was considered controversial. As he pointed out, KJK didn't agree with Gariepy all that much and said so on the interview.

But you know.... some most excellent feminists have said it was a problem and so did some articles, and wiki and Pesutto's team added it to the dossier without this significant Pink News article. So, the accusations of guilt by association MUST be true.

So, KJK said this?

White supremacy and the racism that fuels it has no place in a civilised society, I abhor those views and the people that hold them.

I'm impressed that Pink News printed all of the above, not a publication I generally associate with fair and balanced reporting. 😕

By the way, did your excellent and accurate sources include this update from PinkNews?

"Parker told PinkNews that she was asked to go on the show by Gariépy’s assistant, and that she gave his channel a cursory look and “nothing at the time stood out as anything unusual or problematic”."

"She added: “I make it my business to avoid researching or policing the entire spectrum of someone’s views, I think the mutilation of healthy children’s bodies is too important, and so it’s not usual for me to do an FBI style background check."

"“I am, of course, concerned at the accusations I have heard since recording the show. The misogyny was not something that surprised me, it is very much at home in both the left and the right of politics, whether it be the enforcement of traditional roles through to pretending we don’t know what a woman is."

"“White supremacy and the racism that fuels it has no place in a civilised society, I abhor those views and the people that hold them. As a free speech advocate I think dialogue, even with those with the most odious prejudices, is essential. How are we ever to change or challenge them if we don’t engage? These days so many people are called Nazis and far right that the prophetic warning that we will no longer recognise the real ones is beginning to come true.”"

I look forward to you linking up the interview and having a discussion about what KJK said that was incorrect and hateful since it was one of your points you have mentioned.