Kellie-Jay Keen (AKA Posie Parker) removed from IWD event by police

I notice that they seem to have rolled back a bit on the ruling and it now allows venues to let men use the ladies facilties. The law only applies to workplaces now I believe.

However, I don't think the trans lobby have really thought this through. If they did somehow manage to get something like self ID pushed through against the wishes of the majority of women (not entirely unfeasible given what we've seen from some parties) the fact remains that we outnumber by a enormous margin. And most of us have partners/husbands who would take our side.

If it came to it, any party that let this happen could easily be voted out and it made clear that the same would happen to any other party attempting such fuckery. I doubt any would be so brave at that point. However, it hasn't impacted most women enough for them to really be too worried yet.

I've just watched that whole video with the conversation between KJK and your friend, who is very clearly male and is built like a house. I don't think you can have watched it yourself, have you? KJK was so calm, patient and nice to your friend, recognising that he's "vulnerable". It sounds as though the people who are close to him are doing him no favours in telling him what he wants to hear, as well as doing no favours to the women in the women's toilets he uses.

I would love to see a trans identified male debate on TV why he thinks normal safeguarding rules should be brushed aside just for him.

I'd also like to see one of the mummies of trans-identified teenage boys do the same.

And just noticed that the discussion was created by a bloke. Pretty sure it's the same poster that created a thread on here to 'politely' ask mumsnet posters why they had a problem with transfolk. Username is 'mustwinfullGaming'.

Posters have replied and asked me to provide examples of situations where Self ID has actually lead to an increase in sexual assault. I just said that's not the point, that the absence of bad things happening thus far isn't a logical reason to take on risk. That playing Russian Roulette isn't safe just because the previous ten players didn't get their brains blown out.

Post is sitting at a nice fat -20 karma but hasn't been removed this time. 🤣

Well done. The bullying and silencing on Reddit and Wikipedia has to stop.

I remember a quote from a speaker at a conference:

Culture is formed by what we accept without protest

Speak up even on the small things.

Well done, so it does pay to make a stand, even on the small things, thanks for calling them out. 👏

Well, interestingly, Reddit have done an about turn and messaged me to say that they've reviewed my appeal and that my aforementioned post has been reinstated/my warning lifted as it wasn't actually breaking any content guidelines. 🤣🤣🤣

I got banned from the LabourUK subreddit for replying to a post on a thread where loads of people were moaning about Labour's 'transphobic' policies. The post in question was saying how the police are 'legally assaulting' TW by forcing them to be searched by officers of the opposite gender. I asked if this meant officers of the same sex which obv didn't go down well lol.

I also said that I think Self ID was the straw that broke the camel's back and how I'd once used the ladies toilet in a shopping centre to escape from a weirdo following me and call my mates who were on the next floor up. I said it's a terrifying thought that a stalker could surprise me alone in a state of undress and then proceed to remove their own clothes with the full backing of the law. Actually, I'm not surprised it rustled a few feathered panties lol.

I appealed the decision and wrote a quick response saying GC views are a protected belief and this is the LabourUK page not a transgender sub so both viewpoints should be permissible, and my view about single sex spaces is in line with UK law. There was another button next to the 'appeal' button to refer it to the DSA to check if the moderation decision was in line with EU laws around free speech/beliefs and I said I'm happy to see what they think. Didn't expect a reply tbh.

I wonder if things are slowly changing because they've been pretty much rigidly no debate before. I'm tempted to go and leave another post just to annoy the mod that deleted my original one. 🤣 Nothing inflammatory but just so they see the deleted post has been reinstated lol.

Because many of the people who share her views on the Trans issue are far right leaning, it's true

The push back for women's rights against men who say they are women came from the left.

it's also interesting that many people who could previously never have imagined sitting on the same side of a debate with any right wing polemisist have had a bit of an epiphany. They've realised that many of them are much more reasonable, rational, intelligent, nuanced, tolerant and altogether more acceptable bedfellows than they previously thought.

This was my wake-up call that my assumptions about "ordinary Americans" (as opposed to polemicists) on different sides of the Left-Right divide were way out of whack!

Documentary: Love Trumps Hate
11 Aug 2019

Video Description

At the recent Trump rally in Cincinnati, Ohio Millie Weaver challenges some of the protesters to walk with her over to see if Trump supporters are as bad as the mainstream media says. After several attempts, Millie meets Marcos, a black American, who takes her up on the challenge.

Marcos believes President Trump and his supporters are racist and that if he goes inside the event he will be attacked and told to leave. However, what ends up happening is amazing and will leave you speechless.

I've just listened to KJK reviewing the day on her Facebook channel.

It's absolutely extraordinary that a woman asking a woman's event whether or not it's woman only is escorted from the building because it causes such distress.

What happens when an event is undeniably colonised by men and their own agenda? Do these women ever think uh oh.

Or do they think that, on balance, since it's mostly women and not many men, they can play both sides against the middle and get away with it?

Because they're not getting away with it. They're getting away with it with some people, some of the time.

But they're still damaging, and excluding women. In events, organisations and groups designed specifically for women.

I don't know why their heads don't explode.

And I hope that the ejection was absolutely illegal. It's a council owned venue, so presumably the EA kicks in and she can't be ejected for a) not committing any kind of crime, and b) for holding those views.

As KJK points out, there is a definition for causing distress, and breach of the peace. And she didn't meet it.

it's so fucking tedious that women have to do this one person at a time.

@HeadDeskHeadDesk or you are practically Hitler.
You might appreciate this:

It reminds me of Putin invading Ukraine with the stated aim of stopping NATO Expansion. Result : Sweden and Finland (which has a border with Russia) immediately apply to join NATO

Because many of the people who share her views on the Trans issue are far right leaning, it's true. She's been tried and found guilty by association. But mostly they are simply people of the more traditional, nuclear family oriented, perhaps Christian, proudly patriotic Conservative / Republican persuasion that gets them lazily and cynically pegged as 'far right' these days, because nuance doesn't exist on the 'progressive' left.

It's that blunt instrument of 'progressive' political logic that says if every Royal Mail postbox is red, then surely everything red must be a Royal Mail postbox

The metaphorical swingometer employed by 'progressives' to determine a person's moral worth lurches very far and very fast to the right, and therefore to the Dark Side, once it ventures right of centre at all, I find. The concept of a 'moderate' or 'centre' right doesn't seem to exist any more. You are either on their side on everything, (pro-trans ideology, pro net zero, anti-police, pro Palestine, anti Israel, anti immigration control, pro-open borders, pro-DEI and critical race theory, pro-benefits increases, pro-higher taxes for 'the rich' whoever they are) or you are practically Hitler.

The irony is that many, if not most gender critical feminists would probably have considered themselves to be politically and socially liberal and left leaning before the madness of identity politics and DEI completely captured the Left. It's pushed old school, working class socialists of the Red Wall variety to the right and it's rendered many others politically homeless altogether.

The upshot of refusing to collude in the nonsense is that gender critical people have now been firmly dumped into the 'far right' camp along with anyone else who refuses to shut up and be policed for Wrong Think.

So it's true that feminists are now forced to share a platform with people they might consider to be misogynists on the issue of trans alone. But it's also interesting that many people who could previously never have imagined sitting on the same side of a debate with any right wing polemisist have had a bit of an epiphany. They've realised that many of them are much more reasonable, rational, intelligent, nuanced, tolerant and altogether more acceptable bedfellows than they previously thought.

I mean who'd have thought that Kathleen Stock would end up writing for the Times? I'm going to hazard a guess that she was a Guardian reader through and through, pre- 2021....

That's what happens when you give yourself permission to focus on what unites you rather than on what divides you. Something left wing 'progressives' are incapable of doing.

It makes me wonder who is more upset by KJK telling the truth: Waheymum or the gentleman in question?

Waheymum. I've watched the video of your friend. To your friend's credit, despite this being a distressing situation for him, he came across really well and was calm throughout. I really hope he took onboard what kjk was saying.

She asked if his mum believes he is a woman or is being kind.
Why did she ask this? Because we mothers know who we gave birth to. Some trans identifying men really do believe that because people pretend they are a woman, they genuinely see a woman in front of them. It's a dangerous belief because it could lead to behaviour that breaks the law and causes untold distress. (See Ciara Watkins)

Then when she learnt about his faith she said something like would god make a mistake? And also that she hoped he would come to be happy in the body that god had given him. That came across to me with a lot of kindness.

What she really wanted him to understand is that he must not be in women's spaces. Despite his beliefs about himself that he is vulnerable, a woman etc. (and I understand that a feeling of vulnerability may be interpreted by a man with autism as a 'feminine' feeling) it would be scary and intimidating to meet a large man in the toilet (or any man).
He seems like a gentle soul and I'm sure he wouldn't want women to feel scared by his presence. However, unlike his friends, women can't read what sort of person he is on bumping into him in an enclosed room. Staying out protects him too, from causing unnecessary stress and fear to women. He doesn't seem like the sort of person who would intentionally cause harm and might feel sad to be causing it without realising?

When people can only view the world through the lens of tribalism, where everything is polarised and catastrophed, any opinion expressed that does match their position of ‘good’ is to be vilified.

The person can then be dehumanised and things such as having tomato soup thrown, (or in the US silly string sprayed, water thrown etc) and them being intimidated with violence can be dismissed.

It also means that factual, accurate descriptions of what the person has done and said, can be ignored and inaccurate misinformation can be stated as fact or to be used to support falsehoods. It also means that a false representation can be repeated because people don’t go to original source to check.

People convince themselves of lots of things on the Internet. We get them here time after time parroting the same easily debunked lies, dropping them all over the threads like a toddler showing off his filled nappy.

Character assignation, if you can't kill the message kill the messenger, figuratively speaking of course.

Why do people claim she is far right leaning? I've seen people online referring to her as 'KKK' in a clearly derogatory fashion.

I had a few youtube clips to catch up on so I finally managed to watch this one of KJK today. I find this so bizarre - the treatment of LWS wims is really weird. KJK is asked to leave a venue for asking fact based questions relevant to women's services. There is loads of footage of LWS being physically intimidated and harangued by really scary crowds within only a few metres of them - and the police say that they can't do anything.

Then compare that to the footage of "freda"/Fred Wallace and "Sophie" Brooks physically intimidating and filming various people at a Battle of Ideas festival. What they were doing was genuinely alarming - were they arrested? no. did they manage to get Graham Linehan arrested? yes.

I think it is very clear that women/those with GC views are second class citizens in the eyes of the police. I hope KJK successfully sues the arse off them! It is outrageous that she was asked to leave without the police officer confirming what exactly she had done wrong and what harm had been caused. Shame that KJK lost her temper and swore at him - but I think most people would have - idiot!

KJK's livestream today about the Nottingham Nonsense. So much "alarm and distress" in evidence 🙄

Glad to hear that someone has offered pro bono legal advice and she is going to sue the venue and the pathetic Nottingham cops.

Nottingham - everything wrong with the UK.

This absolutely bears repeating.

Almost all of the sex offenders I have worked with have been extremely vulnerable but also incredibly high risk.

This is not to say necessarily that the majority of sex offenders are vulnerable (because I generally worked with ones who were vulnerable, so I'm not commenting on the overall picture). But there is a cohort where both factors are high. In those circs, there can be a direct correlation.

If you look at assessments for sexual offending risk in teenaged males for example, many of the factors that indicate increased risk would also indicate a 'vulnerability'.

That man is clearly, unambiguously male and @Waheymum is doing him no favours by affirming him in his gender identity. He is also clearly vulnerable but that is not because of his trans identity which I suspect is a symptom rather than a cause of his vulnerability. His spouting of the lies told by TRAs/GLP etc and his general lack of understanding indicate he should probably spend to less time on the internet. His friends should be encouraging him to look after both his physical and mental health rather than telling him that he is a woman.