So … female athletes are gonna have to pay to prove their female. Surely this is sex discrimination given males don’t have to?

I think it needs to be funded through international sports foundations and organisations, I can imagine a few countries where using the excuse that they can’t afford to test women at grassroots levels, which is probably what will be needed ,means they fund fewer female athletes.

@IrishSelkie Equestrian events are not separated by sex - they are mixed sex - so they are irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.

It's a mix of sporting governing bodies, organisations like the IOC & WADA

Who paid when they did blood tests before?

If you have girls in athletics contact British Athletics and ask why they’re discriminating against females. It’s blatant sex discrimination 🤦🏻‍♀️ The only reason cheekswabs are needed is because of men (and useless policies that allowed men into the female category). Why should women have to pay?

Very good question.

But also, how can a simple cheek swab cost £180? If this cost £25 nobody would care.

The cynic in me thinks that this is a punitive ‘fuck you’ to female athletes who want to protect fair sport. Sports governing bodies have with few exceptions had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the side of fairness.

Its just bonkers that female sport is back to where we were 80 years go.
Should be nothing controversial about females being females in women's sport.

And it was dropped purely to allow male athletes with DSDs to compete as female people.

this is my timeline that I have put together.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?reply=148440409&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

And Dr Arne Ljungqvist features very heavily as a person who had great influence about the major decisions regarding allowing male people access to female sports.

At one point (1940s) female athletes had physical sex examinations, ie drop their pants in front of a doctor.

A blood test replaced that. Its ridiculous that it was ever dropped in the first place.

Equestrian events are dependent on the horse as well as the rider. I would not consider this as a group of events where female people have a physical advantage. It could have a great deal to do with the horse.

Fundamental social belief innit? Men can't be trusted and are going to fuck around (literally and metaphorically), so if women don't want to be fucked with it's on them to control the risks men create.

Fuckers.

£185 to prove you're a woman

£5 for a GRC

Lots of people are having their DNA checked via ancestry websites, surely they aren't paying that much?

Well, quite. It seems unnecessary in any case, if anyone sees that a man trying to pass himself off, the surely any complaint would lead to a test. Most of them out themselves by bragging, in any case.

This is an interesting alternative idea. You could state that only women are eligible to take part in women's sports competitions, and that female competitors agree to take a swab test if requested to do so [by some appropriate body], and if the swab goes against them they will be banned / fined. That would money and hassle for women competitors. However, there are a few downsides to this approach. Including that captured organisations might well fail to do anything if a man entered a female competition. And there'd be lots of publicity over anyone who looked masculine and was asked to take the test and then passed it. Plus arguments over DSD / not realising (whatever the truth of the matter).

If you look into it, you'll find that it's almost none. There are a tiny handful of sports in which women can do well, but don't on average do better than men.

I don't think I'd see a cost equivalent to a couple of pairs of trainers as too much to pay for assurances that everyone I compete against will actually be a woman.

Whilst I would prefer this cost to be funded in the same way other anti cheating measures like drug testing are, on balance I would rather these tests happen than not and getting bogged down in who pays for it only gives ammunition to the TRA line that the gender critical movement harms female women (which is very much the argument being made on Reddit right now).

Because it’s the women that have to both undertake the work and pay for a procedure that is required because men are the perpetrators.

can you honestly not see how this is inappropriate

Who pays for drug testing?

An Average 5 year old with poor vision and a new toy to distract them can tell who is a man and who is a woman.

Fine the cheats 15k when caught.

Only the TIMs are complaining it is intrusive.

Ok, I see you have posted links to ultra running.

The reason Courtney Dewaulter won that particular race is because none of the men she raced against were elite. Dewaulter is one the greatest female ultra runners of all time and holds numerous course records. But none of her course records are close to the men’s course records.

Similarly when Jasmine Paris won the Spine Race is was taken as a sign that women outperform men in ultras because she won by such a margin in a time of 83 hours. But her record has been obliterated by a man who ran it 11 hours faster than Paris. The Spine Race is also notorious for being so weather dependent. Look at the results. Pavel Paloncy is one the best male ultra runners. His time the year before Paris’s was 110 hours. But he has done it in 81 hours.

Women are not better at ultra running. There are some exceptional elite women who perform well and get get results against other men, but that is not the same as being of equivalent performance.

Can you give examples of how women out perform men in the sports you listed?

Absoultely if thats what they signed up for but if they are signing up for a female based competition inclusion of males is wrong.

And sure in an extrememly small number of obsucure ultra endurance sports there is some evidence that women who have smaller mass when they have eliminated their fat, and a higher slow to fast twitch fibre ratio that it is possible for them to beat men. But the fact that the number of these events are so few in number that they are the exception that the rule that males have a significant advantage of females in athletic ability.

The average female is the same strength more or less that the average 12 year old boy. This is not something that TW ever bring up when they say they "feel like a woman" but is one of the dominating factor in why women behave the way they do in society.