Men who affirm TW

So true.

See also: (straight) men who think that in gay male couples there must be a man and a ‘woman’. They obviously know that a man in a gay couple is not actually a woman, but…well, he might as well be because he’s so feminine and unlike all the straight men I know.

It’s that kind of thinking.

A woman has some entitlement to decide who is accepted into her woman group (even if I vehemently disagree with her, I feel that she should at least have a voice in the conversation).

I disagree with that. This issue would be so much easier to fight if women were united (as it stands most women either don't care or are ok in having trans women in women's spaces).

Depends on what you mean by social justice. There was a time when it was primarily focused on wealth/class inequality and very much spearheaded by WC people. Over time it's expanded to include other marginalised groups, such as POC and disabled people. There is much cross over between these groups and WC people, so WC people are still very much in the trenches when it comes to fighting for a fairer society. Perhaps the voices of the privileged and better educated drown us out a little, meaning the stereotypical lanyard wearing, flag waving, MC student takes centre stage.

To be honest, it’s completely coloured my view of one famous actor in particular who is quite vocal that TWAW. No they are not. You can say it one thousand times and it would still be a lie.

A lot of gay men are quick to affirm because they associate 'feminine' men and men dressing up in drag with the 'queer' community and so feel an element of kinship; plus many have no real empathy for women or women's situation at all in spite of all that 'gay best friend' stuff. Gay men can also have a high level of " ick" when it comes to female bodies and functions.

Plus an increasing number of men are fascinated by trans porn and have developed a thing for 'female presenting' men. They also have little empathy or feeeling for actual women. They are too focused on what it is they want from women sexually.

Some men who identify as 'progressives' pretend to validate TWAW but they don't really believe it. People like Billy Bragg. In this way he betrays that he was never really a friend to women in the first place.

I’ve noticed this too and for some reason I’m far more irritated by men affirming TW than I am women. A woman has some entitlement to decide who is accepted into her woman group (even if I vehemently disagree with her, I feel that she should at least have a voice in the conversation).

But men announcing what they think a woman is? 😡 My first reaction is always ‘How fucking dare you?’ Especially when they give their opinion that TW should be welcome in women’s loos and changing rooms. WTF?

I think there are a range of reasons, as mentioned by PPs.

It doesn’t affect them because they don’t feel unsafe in their spaces even if TM use them. They don’t actually know what it’s like to feel wary of a whole sex class of people. In other words, they have privilege that they don’t recognise.

For some it’s because they’re sexist and/or thick. They really believe ‘woman’ means ‘someone who wears lipstick and drinks Prosecco’ (or whatever stereotypes they believe about women).

I have been somewhat of a leftie my whole life but this particular type of leftie man has shifted me further towards the centre!

Feeling he has the right to be in charge of things pertaining to women isn't just the preserve of the MC male.
I think there is almost certainly a class divide when it comes to active support for trans issues, which I'd put down to greater exposure to TI via universities and 'progressive' office environments. However, when it comes to an inability to see TI as a threat to women, I think the influencing factor is sex not class.

I think its primarily class. Social justice campaigning has always been spearheaded by highly educated young people with money. Worķing class people (men and women) don't have the time or resources to be fighting one way or the other, even if it does directly affect them. This issue is very much one for the privileged middle class to debate/fight.

Those men are not going to be the men on your FB and Reddit discussion groups.

The men getting angry are virtue signalling (you know the type, those on social media moaning about "flag shaggers" whilst their profile has every flag on it), they do it improve their social standing and to insulate themselves from calls that they should lose their jobs or cede their rights for diversity etc.

For them diversity and minority rights only exist to further their own standing (and TBF a lot of women do the same too).

How about sex insulates them but class makes them think they are ‘in charge’ of women’s toilets/ changing rooms/ sports events and can therefore decide who gets to enter?

It's disappointing to see women reduce the definition of womanhood to whether men are attracted to or would f*ck someone it's really beside the point in these discussions. Many biological women aren't attractive to men not do they want to be, it has no bearing on whether they're women or not.

No, its definitely sex that insulates them when it comes to this issue. Where TIM goes to the toilet or which changing room he uses has no more impact on the life of a WC man than it does a MC man.

I'm willing to bet that none of said men would shag one though 😉

Woke Bros.

A combination of thinking TW are weird/gross/disgusting and so on and therefore not wanting to be in the same group as them, the group meeting being male. (Just to clarify that isn't my opinion, but I know men who think it)

And some men just see women as a series of holes they can fuck. As a lot of men mistakenly believe that all TW have had surgery, they now have a hole not a cock. Ergo they are women. My brother one said to me "well of they've had thru dick chopped off and have a fanny now, of course they are women!" When I asked if he would sleep with one he said "no I'm married", refused to say yes or no as a hypothetical "if you were single" situation, and conveniently forgot that he usually has no issue making misogynistic comments about women. Yes my brother is a vile creature. I keep contact to a minimum.

It doesn't encoach on any societal or psychological space for them. If gender medicine gave transmen the ability to compete effectively against men in sports we would hear a lot more protest.

It's because it's a nice easy cost-free (to them) point scorer, I suppose.

I think a lot of men recognise porn addition and think there for the grace of god.

Also, if we tolerate this, other men can get away with a lot less?

Yeah, professionally, I'm surrounded by gender-conforming men with pronouns in their e-mail signatures who are quite happy to affirm other men as having the right to infiltrate women's spaces and services on a whim. Fucks me right off. They're all delighted with themselves for their "open-mindedness". Ha ha ha.

Obviously there are many clueless mansplainers and bekind men who don’t realise their own sexism. I’m referring to the really nasty piece of work misogynistic leftist (mostly, but some are right leaning) TRA ally men of which there are plenty.

Also this. Don’t underestimate the attraction for so called “progressive” men of having a group of women you can verbally abuse and threaten with impunity when you’re supposed to be respectful of women in theory. It gives many of these men a sexual thrill.

Because they're men, they're not faced with the personal disadvantage and loss of rights supporting this group entails.

I disagree. I don't think it it sex but class that insulates them. That is why all these social justice warriors come from middle-class to upper middle class backgrounds. They have the time and money to fight for these causes

For most I think its just the expected stance of 'people like them'.
They are often advocates of social justice, anti discrimination of minority groups and allies of the marginalised. So of course they support this new 'most marginalised' group.
Because they're men, they're not faced with the personal disadvantage and loss of rights supporting this group entails. So they don't do the hard thinking that leads to the conclusion that on this issue, they're out of step with those they agree with on most everything else.

He was a Labour councillor or some sort of local Labour official. I’ve forgotten his surname but he just said TW are women “but not for relationship purposes”. His name was Robin so he was christened “Relationship Purposes Robin”.