Men who affirm TW

I’ve discussed this at length with DH who is ND and, to his own mind, very ‘justice-sensitive’ and an all-or-nothing thinker.

Which I think would put him firmly in the category of men most likely to respond in a hectoring and mansplainy way on the internet.

What it seems to come down to for him is this:

1. To claim anything other than TWAW is to get in bed with the far right and endorse literally everything Reform and Donald Trump stand for, including bombing schools and removing women’s right to vote. So to express any form of gender scepticism - whatever your views may be on other topics - is functionally equivalent to racism, xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and fascism.
2. He is personally offended by the assumption that men as a category pose a threat to women and children, and this feeling of insult bothers him more than violence against women, because it affects him and means that people might misunderstand him or be unfriendly to him
3. he can’t relate to women’s fear of encountering a man in single sex spaces, because he’s not a woman, and he is just not all that interested in what women might experience because it’s unlikely ever to happen to him and is therefore irrelevant.

I’ve given up trying to talk with him about it, as he clearly thinks my mildly expressed desire for the construction of more toilets and changing rooms and the funding of a wider variety of refuges and crisis centres so that everyone can be accommodated safely and comfortably can only mean I’ve been radicalised by far right extremists.

This concept is so foreign to me. Standing up and fighting (and my God do they fight over this) for something that you don't inherently believe in to just seems so pointless. No wonder so many are struggling with their identities these days, when people are pushing for things that go against theor own personal truths. Absolute cowards, the lot of them.

His name was Robin Green and I found this old screenshot.

This actually makes sense. Amongst comments I often find men stating that feminism is to blame- literally one word posts just stating 'feminism'..

I always wondered what they meant by this as obviously all feminists wanted was the right to vote, work, be treated with respect etc so could never see the link.

So you're suggesting that women 'breaking free', so to speak, leads some men to be victims of our own success in a way and we are basically reaping what we have sown? What an odd way of looking at things some people have (these types of men, not you).

He was a Labour councillor or some sort of local Labour official. I’ve forgotten his surname but he just said TW are women “but not for relationship purposes”. His name was Robin so he was christened “Relationship Purposes Robin”.

This actually makes sense. Amongst comments I often find men stating that feminism is to blame- literally one word posts just stating 'feminism'..

I always wondered what they meant by this as obviously all feminists wanted was the right to vote, work, be treated with respect etc so could never see the link.

So you're suggesting that women 'breaking free', so to speak, leads some men to be victims of our own success in a way and we are basically reaping what we have sown? What an odd way of looking at things some people have (these types of men, not you).

But this is what really confuses me. I 100% agree with you that many men see women as mere entities who have tits and a fanny and we're all familiar with the trope that many men will shag any woman that's available (see the males that linger past closing time at nightclubs in the hopes of getting laid by literally any woman who will have him).

But there does appear to be a correlation between men who state TW are not women BECAUSE they wouldn't shag them. For example, a FB post this morning suggested that straight men should be more open to the idea of dating and having relationships with TW as a bid for acceptance of TW as women and for diversity. The comment section was absolutely chock full of men stating that TW are men and many would rather 'shit in their hands and clap' than sleep with one because they aren't gay.

Going back ti my original post, all the straight men I know in real life would say exactly the same thing. I appreciate this may be confirmation bias on my part of course but I'm just not convinced that the men stating TWAW aren't actually secretly into Transwomen. I agree many will be social justice warriors and this just happens to be yet another hill they're willing to die on in the name of being kind but I really don't know many men who would forsake the truth for kindness.

I'm not sure most women do support men in womens spaces, or are divided. Studies are usually nothing more than surveys.

The backlash against the SC is from trans identified people and institutions, not women. If we did mainly support men as women, we'd be asking for law change, and im not hearing that.

A woman has some entitlement to decide who is accepted into her woman group (even if I vehemently disagree with her, I feel that she should at least have a voice in the conversation).

I disagree with that. This issue would be so much easier to fight if women were united (as it stands most women either don't care or are ok in having trans women in women's spaces).

This actually makes sense. Amongst comments I often find men stating that feminism is to blame- literally one word posts just stating 'feminism'..

I always wondered what they meant by this as obviously all feminists wanted was the right to vote, work, be treated with respect etc so could never see the link.

So you're suggesting that women 'breaking free', so to speak, leads some men to be victims of our own success in a way and we are basically reaping what we have sown? What an odd way of looking at things some people have (these types of men, not you).

I think the point is that many men really do see women purely through the lens of sex and what it is they like sexually ( apart from their mum, their sister etc).
Males are far more prone to the objectification of female bodies.....whereby 'a woman' is just someone who has tits and a fanny. That's what makes them female.

This is also how AGP men tend to view womanhood - along with 'performances of femininity'.

as it stands most women either don't care or are ok in having trans women in women's spaces

I don't think that's true. When you count men as women, it's actually impossible to say any way.

It's disappointing to see women reduce the definition of womanhood to whether men are attracted to or would f*ck someone it's really beside the point in these discussions. Many biological women aren't attractive to men not do they want to be, it has no bearing on whether they're women or not.

Also this. Don’t underestimate the attraction for so called “progressive” men of having a group of women you can verbally abuse and threaten with impunity when you’re supposed to be respectful of women in theory. It gives many of these men a sexual thrill.

My sample of one says that the transwoman at work would "make him feel really odd" if they shared a loo or otherwise had to think of him/her as a man, because you'd "never know she wasn't a woman".

Except, as I pointed out, he does know, doesn't he?