Men who affirm TW

Because they look down on TW as inferior, just like they look down on women and so to some men,TW are the 'same' as women in terms of respect or value... even thought biologically distinct.

If a man believes there are only two possible categories, his superior one as a 'man' and another inferior one, he defaults to TW belonging in the other category.

Sorry if this has been said earlier in the thread but it is obvious.

TRAs have only been so sucessful because it builds on the foundations of our society, MRAs. ie Men's rights.

Of course if a man makes a claim it is right. And even more is he right if a woman or women tells him he is wrong.

Although a lot has been written about how the queering of Stonewall helped launch the growth of trans rights, the reality is it is part of the male backlash against women.

70s feminism ie Women's Liberation was built on the political understanding that men as a sex class dominated and discriminated against the sex class of women.

What better way to undermine that analysis than to say sex isn't real, as it is more important is to recognise someone's identity.

Not only does trans politics deny women's biological reality, it allows men to identify out of being part of the dominant sex class.

And they have the halo of being on the "politically correct! movement.

According to Stonewall, the Guardian, politicians, schools, etc., etc..

Short answer, they regard women as nothing more than support humans who shouldn't be allowed to have opinions. Men affirm TWAW because it doesn't affect them and they don't give a shit that it affects women.

Longer answer, they're misogynists who really dislike women and all this has given them the perfect atmosphere to scream abuse at women while being applauded for being 'progressive' and 'kind'.

It is, as I've been saying for years, a misogynist's wet dream.

A poem of mine from UTDOD -

A misogynist's wet dream

Men,
Who lurked for such a short while as 'good guys'
Now have free rein.

Unleashed, they say all they wanted to but couldn't.
Bitch, witch, ugly, old, bigot, terf, frigid, cold.

Sheer orgasmic pleasure at 'telling those bitches'
While society cheers them on.

'Decapitate terfs' above a smirk.
Screaming 'witch' from above.
Forced smiles on a podium.

It was always there. Under the surface.
Seething but contained.

But now? They can say, self righteously,

'Burn the witch!'

I agree.

I don't make the rules, I'm just highlighting that there are a lot of men on the left who say twaw.

I think what you’re getting at is that many women won’t encounter men in their changing rooms & so don’t think about it at all or consider it a big deal. Divide the amount of headspace the average woman gives this by about a billion and that’s the amount of consideration your average man (however much of a leftie NAMLT feminist ally he likes to think is) will give to what that experience - or any other experience, for that matter - might be like for a woman.

I have twice in my life encountered someone undeniably male in a women’s only space - once in a mental health centre for women where the individual in question was verbally abusive and threatened violence, and another time in the fitting room of a clothing shop, where the person was nothing but courteous, and obviously quite self-conscious - but it still felt unsettling to me, in light of the earlier experience, and I ended up feeling like I needed to smile and seem friendly so this person wouldn’t feel uncomfortable, even though I did.

This one, perchance?

And I get that for "the woman in the street" but it is unforgivable amongst women whose jobs are entirely about looking at things on a system wide basis or about knowing where sex realky matters. The NHS is awash with people like this. How exactly do you plan for maternity services if you're prepared to gather statistics based on 'gender' or 'gender identity'? People whose job is to encourage women from disadvantaged cohorts to take up cervical screening who think it's mean to use the term woman and use 'cervix haver' even though we have tons of research that shows that language excludes for example women with learning difficulties

women like those running girl guides for example or the women's institute who are falling g over themselves to apologise ti men that they can't be members anymore and twisting themselves into pretzels yo see how they can appease them

these are professional educated women who bloody well should know better

The Communist Party ( surely left if anyone is) don't think men can be women ( or vice versa). Also plenty of women ( and men btw) in the Labour Party don't either.

The Greens maybe ( you'll have to ask them) don't believe that it is just another way of fractioning the fight against capitalism like the above do.

'One is workers' unity and ever more shall be so', as the ( revolutionary) song' goes.

Your DH is either a billionaire or he can lick his own eyebrows.

that just sounds to me like an excuse for bad behaviour.

Basically this. It's a badge that doesn't cost anything but lets everyone know how "right on" they are. It's also a way of putting the age old misogynistic boot firmly into women without actually looking as if that's what they're doing.

I think in some cases there is a naivety as well. Some people go along with it believing that it’s “being kind“ or whatever else and that makes them feel good about their image. However those people haven’t read much about the issue or understand the actual implications of saying things like TW are women.
i would imagine a lot of these men have the same view as Relationship Purposes Robin if truth be told .

I understand that from a conceptual point. But most people don't think in terms of feminist theory. They think in terms of what directly affects their lives. Honestly it is very easy to forget this that issue exists if you never see a man in a women's space, just saying.

It tends to be lefties (I'm one, but don't buy in) and there is rather a lot of misogyny amongst left leaning blokes, especially the far left.
Don't understand it myself.

I think it's probably both.

It's fair to say that most people - especially men - who are vocal supporters of / allies to those causes that don't directly affect them personally come from the middle and educated classes in our society.
Some seem to wear it as a badge; others seem to consider it a duty that comes with their comparatively comfortable position.

But on this particular topic, I do think sex also plays a huge part, but so too do societal gender norms. Or, at least, most men's perceptions of societal gender norms and what is expected of them as a result.

I don't want men in women's spaces but at the same time I wouldnt say it is an important issue to me. To be honest, I don't think I've ever worried or been fearful about encountering a man in a women's bathroom (maybe because it has never happened to me). If it is something you never see or experience it then it is unlikely to be something you think about. Also I am not a feminist either so that may be partly why.

I remember a Guardian article ages ago which suggested the same. The response was similarly outraged, even though other articles featuring “trans lesbians” had passed without similar comment.

I find it hard that people are so rigid in their zealotry against people who simply disbelieve in a fairly implausible belief that most people have only had for a decade at most.

I think the charitable take on that is that some people (and feminist women who believe TWAW are usually big on this) think that any attempt at separation based on biology is anti feminist, because its the very essence of defining, grouping and 'limiting' people by their sex.
They seem to naively hold the view that if we dispense with the idea of fixed sex altogether, we dispense with the cause of our oppression.
Just as we need to know what a woman is in order to know which people to oppress, if there is no longer a fixed state of being a woman, there won't be a group to oppress.
So yes, I do think that some people are coming at this from a skewed and deeply flawed off shoot of feminism.

It’s one of many - but to feel that way makes me ableist as well, apparently.