Men who affirm TW

Some who thinks gender critical people want genitals to 'dictate appearance, personality', someone who uses the term 'intersex' and thinks its a separate category to male and female and someone who says they won't enter into debate on any of their points.

Nothing remarkable here, just the same old, same old. We are nasty old meanies who won't let the poor sad men have whatever that want.

What is remarkable is we are being told how wrong we and that we should shove people into boxes or whatever by someone who has just treated people with transgender identities as a group with homogenous beliefs. They have just shoved them all into the same box.

To be honest, woman will never have a consensus on this.

I am repelled by GC arguments which seem to lack love and care for fellow humans who they don't necessarily agree with.

There is no concern for trans people's needs. The solution doesn't have to be transwomen in all women's spaces no matter what. But I think we should be able to create women + transwomen friendly spaces/groups. As long as it's disclosed, I don't get the argument against this. GC would like to exclude TW from ALL things for women. I won't ever agree with that because above all, they are human and deserve to have their needs taken into consideration.

I know several trans people and the mental and physical health implications of not receiving proper treatment can be great. GC people seem unconcerned with this entirely and just want trans people to conform to their own desires. Their health will continue to be a concern for those of us with friends and family going through it. Right now, transition is the most effective treatment.

GC continue to use language that denies the existence of trans people. They do exist. We have a word for it. Transwoman is a specific label for a biological male who chooses to present as a woman. Continuing to deny their existence won't make inroads with those of us who care for our trans friends and family.

GC people also completely misunderstand the argument about sex and gender. No one (who is thinking logically and understands science) thinks you can change your biological sex which is determined by chromosomes. Gender is considered more culturally influenced and fluid. Strong sex based norms are the reason why gender is considered different than sex. As long as we expect genitals alone to dictate appearance, personality, and access to services this will not change. People do not do well shoved into a box they don't fit.

Sex: male, female, intersex. Gender: Cis man, Cis woman, non binary, transman, transwoman. They are different categories. I can see an objection with calling a transwoman female, but women is a gender term.

The propaganda about dangerous transwoman is so exaggerated and obviously political. I have never felt in danger around a transwoman. Single examples are overblown. Exposure bias. Look it up.

Also the claim that people can always tell when someone is trans just denies basic logic. How would you identify the people who "pass"? You would see them, perceive them as a woman because you don't have X-ray vision, and dismiss them. It's basic logic that you don't know what you don't know.

I won't be debating any of my points. I wanted to offer my perspective since these discussions are always dominated by a single POV

Willoughby and their cervix will be surprised to hear they haven't changed sex!

People with transgender are not saying that they are the opposite sex? That they haven’t changed sex?

well now, there will be a few of male posters with transgender identities who have been posting here recently that would probably like to explain to the poster who is making such a declaration that they are wrong. Goodness knows how many pages of threads we have had these discussions on lately.

But apparently, we are being told what people with transgender identities believe by someone who considers themself an ally.

To be honest, woman will never have a consensus on this.

I am repelled by GC arguments which seem to lack love and care for fellow humans who they don't necessarily agree with.

There is no concern for trans people's needs. The solution doesn't have to be transwomen in all women's spaces no matter what. But I think we should be able to create women + transwomen friendly spaces/groups. As long as it's disclosed, I don't get the argument against this. GC would like to exclude TW from ALL things for women. I won't ever agree with that because above all, they are human and deserve to have their needs taken into consideration.

I know several trans people and the mental and physical health implications of not receiving proper treatment can be great. GC people seem unconcerned with this entirely and just want trans people to conform to their own desires. Their health will continue to be a concern for those of us with friends and family going through it. Right now, transition is the most effective treatment.

GC continue to use language that denies the existence of trans people. They do exist. We have a word for it. Transwoman is a specific label for a biological male who chooses to present as a woman. Continuing to deny their existence won't make inroads with those of us who care for our trans friends and family.

GC people also completely misunderstand the argument about sex and gender. No one (who is thinking logically and understands science) thinks you can change your biological sex which is determined by chromosomes. Gender is considered more culturally influenced and fluid. Strong sex based norms are the reason why gender is considered different than sex. As long as we expect genitals alone to dictate appearance, personality, and access to services this will not change. People do not do well shoved into a box they don't fit.

Sex: male, female, intersex. Gender: Cis man, Cis woman, non binary, transman, transwoman. They are different categories. I can see an objection with calling a transwoman female, but women is a gender term.

The propaganda about dangerous transwoman is so exaggerated and obviously political. I have never felt in danger around a transwoman. Single examples are overblown. Exposure bias. Look it up.

Also the claim that people can always tell when someone is trans just denies basic logic. How would you identify the people who "pass"? You would see them, perceive them as a woman because you don't have X-ray vision, and dismiss them. It's basic logic that you don't know what you don't know.

I won't be debating any of my points. I wanted to offer my perspective since these discussions are always dominated by a single POV

It’s one of many - but to feel that way makes me ableist as well, apparently.

To be honest, woman will never have a consensus on this.

I am repelled by GC arguments which seem to lack love and care for fellow humans who they don't necessarily agree with.

There is no concern for trans people's needs. The solution doesn't have to be transwomen in all women's spaces no matter what. But I think we should be able to create women + transwomen friendly spaces/groups. As long as it's disclosed, I don't get the argument against this. GC would like to exclude TW from ALL things for women. I won't ever agree with that because above all, they are human and deserve to have their needs taken into consideration.

I know several trans people and the mental and physical health implications of not receiving proper treatment can be great. GC people seem unconcerned with this entirely and just want trans people to conform to their own desires. Their health will continue to be a concern for those of us with friends and family going through it. Right now, transition is the most effective treatment.

GC continue to use language that denies the existence of trans people. They do exist. We have a word for it. Transwoman is a specific label for a biological male who chooses to present as a woman. Continuing to deny their existence won't make inroads with those of us who care for our trans friends and family.

GC people also completely misunderstand the argument about sex and gender. No one (who is thinking logically and understands science) thinks you can change your biological sex which is determined by chromosomes. Gender is considered more culturally influenced and fluid. Strong sex based norms are the reason why gender is considered different than sex. As long as we expect genitals alone to dictate appearance, personality, and access to services this will not change. People do not do well shoved into a box they don't fit.

Sex: male, female, intersex. Gender: Cis man, Cis woman, non binary, transman, transwoman. They are different categories. I can see an objection with calling a transwoman female, but women is a gender term.

The propaganda about dangerous transwoman is so exaggerated and obviously political. I have never felt in danger around a transwoman. Single examples are overblown. Exposure bias. Look it up.

Also the claim that people can always tell when someone is trans just denies basic logic. How would you identify the people who "pass"? You would see them, perceive them as a woman because you don't have X-ray vision, and dismiss them. It's basic logic that you don't know what you don't know.

I won't be debating any of my points. I wanted to offer my perspective since these discussions are always dominated by a single POV

It's almost impressive how many you managed to hit!

Bonus points for 'I'm not debating this' - 'no debate' continues unabated!

To be honest, woman will never have a consensus on this.

I am repelled by GC arguments which seem to lack love and care for fellow humans who they don't necessarily agree with.

There is no concern for trans people's needs. The solution doesn't have to be transwomen in all women's spaces no matter what. But I think we should be able to create women + transwomen friendly spaces/groups. As long as it's disclosed, I don't get the argument against this. GC would like to exclude TW from ALL things for women. I won't ever agree with that because above all, they are human and deserve to have their needs taken into consideration.

I know several trans people and the mental and physical health implications of not receiving proper treatment can be great. GC people seem unconcerned with this entirely and just want trans people to conform to their own desires. Their health will continue to be a concern for those of us with friends and family going through it. Right now, transition is the most effective treatment.

GC continue to use language that denies the existence of trans people. They do exist. We have a word for it. Transwoman is a specific label for a biological male who chooses to present as a woman. Continuing to deny their existence won't make inroads with those of us who care for our trans friends and family.

GC people also completely misunderstand the argument about sex and gender. No one (who is thinking logically and understands science) thinks you can change your biological sex which is determined by chromosomes. Gender is considered more culturally influenced and fluid. Strong sex based norms are the reason why gender is considered different than sex. As long as we expect genitals alone to dictate appearance, personality, and access to services this will not change. People do not do well shoved into a box they don't fit.

Sex: male, female, intersex. Gender: Cis man, Cis woman, non binary, transman, transwoman. They are different categories. I can see an objection with calling a transwoman female, but women is a gender term.

The propaganda about dangerous transwoman is so exaggerated and obviously political. I have never felt in danger around a transwoman. Single examples are overblown. Exposure bias. Look it up.

Also the claim that people can always tell when someone is trans just denies basic logic. How would you identify the people who "pass"? You would see them, perceive them as a woman because you don't have X-ray vision, and dismiss them. It's basic logic that you don't know what you don't know.

I won't be debating any of my points. I wanted to offer my perspective since these discussions are always dominated by a single POV

Also, it gives them an excuse to threaten violence to women who disagree.