Enby they/them pronouns - what's the law on this?

Nobody wants to 'punish' people for choosing to identify as trans or non-binary. But those people must accept that there are many people who don't believe in gender identity, and it goes against our own beliefs to pretend that they have changed sex or that they don't have a sex.

Identifying as trans or non-binary may be perfectly normal, just as it's perfectly normal to hold any other belief, such as a belief in God. But it's also perfectly normal to hold the belief that people who identify as trans or non-binary haven't actually changed sex (or become sexless), and this particular belief is protected by law, thanks to Maya Forstater.

The expectation that other people will pretend to share your belief that people can change sex, or not have a sex, is totally unreasonable. Forcing other people to comply with your belief system and pretend that they share it is bullying. The bigots are the people who refuse to accept that other people don't share their belief in gender identity and don't believe that people can change sex.

Being trans is a mental health condition or a fetish
Claiming to be non binary is a sign of a narcissistic personality disorder
Nobody is trying to punish anyone for being in a minority.
I agree that bigotry, hate and prejudice aren't positive characteristics could you remind your trans community about that
Refusing/not believing in gender ideology isn't transphobic its a legally protected belief system held by most people
Humans are individuals but they cannot change sex.
Calling someone bigoted for holding different views, values or beliefs is bigotry and harassment and you should expect to be challenged and pulled up for your bigoted anti woman views

Wanting to punish individuals for belonging to a minority isn't a "viewpoint".

It's bullying within the workplace.

Bigotry, prejudice and hate aren't positive characteristics.

You aren't being brave for expressing this opinion. You're being transphobic.

If you're so utterly limited that you can't understand human beings are individuals and not a conspiracy, then I pity you. Fine, hold those (appalling, bigoted) views. Ignore the fact that trans people have lives, jobs, hobbies, kids, hopes and dreams just like anybody else. But express that "viewpoint" and people will push back against it.

Because being trans and non-binary is perfectly normal.

However if Saoirse was a different name, one tied to a different ethnicity then failure to learn and remember the name could be (and has been) used as evidence of racism.

It’s very bad manners to use ‘she’ or ‘he’ when talking about someone who is there with you. Pronouns are only used when talking about someone who isn’t there. It’s weirdly controlling to try and police how people speak about you, and to insist that they shore up your beliefs, when you aren’t even there.
In a work situation it must be really stressful.

I have never heard ‘them’ used as a singular. But the way you use ‘hasn’t’ is also totally incorrect, it makes no sense. ‘They hasn’t been around since I got here’ is not a correct sentence in English.
This is why we need clear language, as it makes for good communication. There are often posts on here where someone uses “they” for their child rather than identifying the sex, probably hey feel it’s less outing. However it can make for really confusing posts where one isn’t sure of the number of children.

May I suggested that you read the full thread as you will see that your linguistic nonsense was delt with earlier
Nobody should have to train themselves to lie about people's sex or to use compelled language so no its not about practice nor is refusal to do so being prejudiced

I think we're quite hoenst on this board about our problem with gender

I don't believe in marriage, but if someone goes from Miss to mrs in emails, I don't make a fuss about it because I respect individual choices and freedom of expression. Your problem is gender. Just be hoenst about that

1, nobody is assigned a gender at birth, out sex is observed and recorded
2, using wrong sexed pronouns is not the same as calling your brother your brother whether full or half hes still your brother, what you choose to call your stepfather is also irrelevant
3, someone who is so psychologically unwell that she self harms if her linguistic demands aren't met belongs in a psychiatric hospital.
4, people with certain disabilities are literally unable to consistently lie about someone's sex
5, other people have rights too so nobody should be expected to use incorrect language because of someone's else's delusional thinking or quasi religious cult

I filled quite a bit of my bingo card up with those last couple of posts

It becomes really easy when you know someone who uses they/them. Plus, we all use those pronouns e.g when referring to someone in a profession ( "has the nurse been?" " Yes, they left a while ago") or a colleague you don't know so well.

My children have friends with non-gendered names (Memphis, Phoenix, Zephyr) at school (which I would guess is far more common in a less working-class area than ours). I lose track of which friend is who, and which identify as non-binary, so just use 'them'. Very handy if you have face blindness & can't remember whether Jem is a bit or girl.

It's all about practice, and not being prejudiced towards someone different. Politeness & respect cost nothing.

That's really not true. I live with someone who's trans - and using 'he' is just normal to me. It doesn't matter if he isn't binding (something trans men tend to do less when they're accepted btw) he is just "he" to me.

Same as my stepfather is dad, my half-brother's my brother and my friend's adopted child is her child.

I didn't think I could get used to they/them, but now my oldest kid is saying someone non-binary. I have never met this person, have no idea what they look like or what their assigned gender at birth was - and don't care. I use they/them when asking how they are. It's all about practice and broadening your horizons.

Wrong gender ideology has never been put to the grainger test so it is not covered under beliefs and when it is put to the grainger test it will fail as it insists that everyone else must play along which means its NWORIDS.
Also non binary and gender identity are not recognised in UK law, non binary never will and gender identity would need a full explanation that can be tested (nobody has ever been able to give 1).
Refusing to use wrong sex or grammatically incorrect or made up language is not harassment, bullying or creating a hostile environment however insisting/demanding that someone else does would be.
The woman in question can ask and must accept people refusing to do so as long as people don't intentionally and repeatedly use accurate pronouns. She has a name and will have to get used to people using that instead.
Oh and btw the forstsater ruling was an eat so yes it did set precedent.

This is the wrong board to try your TRA tactics of misrepresenting the law

It wouldn't necessarily be covered by beliefs. There would need to be a legal case to determine that.

It's not "really easy" to use singular they when your eyes are telling you "this person is male" or "this person is female". The tribunal panel in Lockwood vs Cheshire and Wirral NHS slipped up several times, as noted in their judgement.

It's ableist to assume that everyone is capable of smoothly navigating such linguistic speedbumps, as I already outlined upthread.

Have they started yet?

It might be really easy for you to use they/them pronouns, but for some of us it isn't. Regardless of any philosophical reasons, cognitive issues with word choices means names are hard enough, but having to discard the clearly obvious option for personal pronoun and then retrieve the "right" one is a whole heap of extra cognitive load. And for some reason possessive pronouns are harder still.