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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Enby they/them pronouns - what's the law on this?

390 replies

SirChenjins · 03/03/2026 10:08

New person coming into my team who I think may want others to use they/them. I have a standard team signature that I don't want altered, but if my suspicions are correct and she starts bringing her whole enby self to work, where do we stand legally if I or anyone else says nope, not doing that?

I know the moral arguments on each side of the debate so don't want a rehash of the for's and against's, just want to know where I stand in law .

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 03/03/2026 17:46

Rhubarbandcustardd · 03/03/2026 15:27

Your post sounds combative because you are dismissing the new staffs needs before they have even got there and you talk about you think team sees it as you do - and your not going about it as a manager should to set an example of inclusion - that’s what workplaces want

and yes if you call her “she” when she asks for “they” you will be in hot water

Nobody needs to compelle other people's speach or force them to participate in an act of religious observance.
This member of staff may want to do so or she may not however the fact that its already known how she identifies means she likely will.
A good manager looks for potential problems and finds work around or if not possible kicks the can to hr or senior management, they don't just wait until they're neck deep in shit and then try and figure out what to do

BackToLurk · 03/03/2026 17:45

LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:38

The they/them statement is specific, a request to be acknowledged as more than just a she or her.

More than one.

Plural.

”This is Jane, they are starting on Monday,” doesn’t make sense.

”These are Janes, they are starting on Monday,” does.

Well, it doesn’t really, but you have to go along with people’s pronoun delusions now, no matter how barking mad or outright lying they are.

Only kind to join in. Don’t be half-hearted, go for it 100%. Plural all the way!

Again, in the real world, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who heard ”This is Jane, they are starting on Monday,” and thought “Oh my god. What could this mean? There must be multiple Janes”.

Gettingbysomehow · 03/03/2026 17:45

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LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:38

BackToLurk · 03/03/2026 17:32

Or

“This is Jane, she’s starting on Monday.”
”Lovely to meet you, Jane”
”Um, I use they/them pronouns.”
”OK.”

The they/them statement is specific, a request to be acknowledged as more than just a she or her.

More than one.

Plural.

”This is Jane, they are starting on Monday,” doesn’t make sense.

”These are Janes, they are starting on Monday,” does.

Well, it doesn’t really, but you have to go along with people’s pronoun delusions now, no matter how barking mad or outright lying they are.

Only kind to join in. Don’t be half-hearted, go for it 100%. Plural all the way!

godmum56 · 03/03/2026 17:37

LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:27

Jane has said she wishes to be referred to in the plural.

Honestly why would anyone want to be so arsey?

godmum56 · 03/03/2026 17:36

SirChenjins · 03/03/2026 17:19

Thanks everyone - some really good advice and some interesting opinions.

If the p word arises (and if it doesn't, grand), I will say something along the lines of that she or I can put forward her request but that there may be people in the team who may feel uncomfortable with it, and suggest that using her first name in her absence or 'you/your/you're' would seem a reasonable compromise. Does that sound OK from a legal pov all round?

If "jane" is not there, she will not know what pronoun is used. I am not sure that using "you" as a third person pronoun will work. As has been said its very easy to avoid using a pronoun about someone in their presence, in fact it used to be considered rude to do so. Not sure why "you" is any dfferent from "they" Its also open to stupid misunderstanding
"Has anyone seen Jane?"
"Yes you've just popped to the loo"

BackToLurk · 03/03/2026 17:32

BackToLurk · 03/03/2026 17:31

“This is Jane, she’s starting on Monday.”
”Lovely to meet you, Jane”
”And you”

Or

“This is Jane, she’s starting on Monday.”
”Lovely to meet you, Jane”
”Um, I use they/them pronouns.”
”OK.”

BackToLurk · 03/03/2026 17:31

LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:27

Jane has said she wishes to be referred to in the plural.

“This is Jane, she’s starting on Monday.”
”Lovely to meet you, Jane”
”And you”

LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:27

godmum56 · 03/03/2026 17:22

why just why would you do this?

Jane has said she wishes to be referred to in the plural.

godmum56 · 03/03/2026 17:22

LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:20

“This is Jane, she’s starting on Monday.”
”Lovely to meet you, Jane”
”Um, I use they/them pronouns.”
”My apologies, Jane. Lovely to meet you both.”

🤷‍♀️

why just why would you do this?

LovelyCrocus · 03/03/2026 17:20

“This is Jane, she’s starting on Monday.”
”Lovely to meet you, Jane”
”Um, I use they/them pronouns.”
”My apologies, Jane. Lovely to meet you both.”

🤷‍♀️

SirChenjins · 03/03/2026 17:19

Thanks everyone - some really good advice and some interesting opinions.

If the p word arises (and if it doesn't, grand), I will say something along the lines of that she or I can put forward her request but that there may be people in the team who may feel uncomfortable with it, and suggest that using her first name in her absence or 'you/your/you're' would seem a reasonable compromise. Does that sound OK from a legal pov all round?

OP posts:
godmum56 · 03/03/2026 16:42

WheretheFishesareFrightening · 03/03/2026 16:38

I find these threads fascinating. I work with a lot of Countesses, Ladies, Baronnesses and other titled gentry. There is not a world where I would call any of them she or her, it’d be a true faux pas along the lines of “who’s she, the cat’s mother”. It’s incredibly easily to drop out any use of pronouns if you are trying to be polite, so this seems to be the most obvious way forward. It can’t be illegal to avoid using a word, it’s not like you’d be using a non preferred word.

this absolutely. As a child I would have been firmly corrected for using someone's pronoun in their presence. and yes I would have been corrected with the phrase "who is "she"? The cats grandmother?"

WheretheFishesareFrightening · 03/03/2026 16:38

I find these threads fascinating. I work with a lot of Countesses, Ladies, Baronnesses and other titled gentry. There is not a world where I would call any of them she or her, it’d be a true faux pas along the lines of “who’s she, the cat’s mother”. It’s incredibly easily to drop out any use of pronouns if you are trying to be polite, so this seems to be the most obvious way forward. It can’t be illegal to avoid using a word, it’s not like you’d be using a non preferred word.

spannasaurus · 03/03/2026 16:30

philosophical beliefs are only protected when they are not harming others - that part is really clear

It isn't clear. Protected characteristics are always protected. That they are not a defence against harassment doesn't mean they are only protected whilst not causing harm to others.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/03/2026 16:28

Rhubarbandcustardd · 03/03/2026 16:23

Its clear harassment if employee has asked to be supported in using their preferred pronouns

philosophical beliefs are only protected when they are not harming others - that part is really clear

This depends on whether non binary gender identity is counted as falling under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. There is no case law that I can think of that involves they/them pronoun demands.

jmh740 · 03/03/2026 16:28

Hoardasurass · 03/03/2026 12:45

Really try these
She is going to the park
They is going to the park.
This is Jane she is the manager
This is Jane they is the manager
Only 1 of each set of statements is grammatically correct the other isn't. They is a plural and shouldn't be used yo refer to a single person

You would say they are going to the park. They are the manager.

spannasaurus · 03/03/2026 16:27

Rhubarbandcustardd · 03/03/2026 16:24

Exactly, you’ve got it

But not using preferred pronouns is not automatically harassement.

Rhubarbandcustardd · 03/03/2026 16:24

spannasaurus · 03/03/2026 15:58

Religion and belief is a protected characteristic in the same way that sexual orientation, race etc are protected characteristics and offer the same protection against discrimination.

No protected characteristic can be used as a defence against harassment

Exactly, you’ve got it

Rhubarbandcustardd · 03/03/2026 16:23

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/03/2026 15:58

Whether correct sex pronouns are “harassment” objectively and how reasonable it is to expect people to use preferred pronouns at all times is dependent on the individual circumstances of a case. Gender critical belief is protected in law as a philosophical belief. The devil is in the detail. It certainly isn’t the case that if people are offended by the expression of that belief that means it’s automatically harassment.

Edited

Its clear harassment if employee has asked to be supported in using their preferred pronouns

philosophical beliefs are only protected when they are not harming others - that part is really clear

WildLeader · 03/03/2026 16:22

I reckon she might not pass the probation period @SirChenjins

godmum56 · 03/03/2026 16:14

Op it occurs to me to ask what you actually want? Do you want to retain your standard team email signature which currently does not include a space for pronouns? Do you want the newbie to not ask others use their chosen pronoun? Are you GC yourself and want the whole team to espouse GC views? Putting a different POV I am female from birth, identify as female and would be mad as hell if people started to refer to me as "he/him" I'd think it was taking the piss.
Personally I think saying that there is a standard team email template and it does not include pronouns is fair enough. I'd be careful about the other two though.

TheBeaTgoeson1 · 03/03/2026 16:14

AccidentalPrawnYouFool · 03/03/2026 16:09

I’m GC, but I would never tell someone at work that wanted to be referred to in a certain way that I wasn’t going to because it doesn’t match my beliefs. Just smile and nod, and refer to them by their name. Don’t make a big deal about it and hopefully neither will they. If they want to put they/them after their name in their email then who really cares? I think it’s nonsense but you don’t get to tell people how they should live their lives, it isn’t really any of your business.

This.

God this thread is wild.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 03/03/2026 16:10

Hoardasurass · 03/03/2026 13:00

They are is again plural not singular using they as a singular would require is not are.
You may not have learned these grammatical rules at school or have trained yourself to forget them but that doesn't change the grammatical rules

Not quite, because it is also a generally accepted rule of grammar that 'they' can be used in the singular (albeit historically when the sex of the person in question was not known) and in those circumstances then correct grammar is 'they are' even when you know that the person (sex unknown) is singular. It's not a massive stretch to then apply this to a circumstance where the sex is known but the person in question doesn't want it highlighted...so, as ever in English, rules aren't always what they seem, or even that rigid!!

I live in Italy, where there is no dedicated neuter grammatical gender...everything (and everyone) is either masculine or feminine, leading to the odd situation whereby to describe that someone is gender neutral you need to decide whether to use the masculine or feminine...though in mixed groups you'd always use the masculine. Discuss the rights and wrongs of that...! The crux of the matter is that, once you decided which way you are going to go (masculine or feminine) then the rest of the words in the sentence follow that lead where necessary - you shouldn't flip between masculine and feminine...

AccidentalPrawnYouFool · 03/03/2026 16:09

I’m GC, but I would never tell someone at work that wanted to be referred to in a certain way that I wasn’t going to because it doesn’t match my beliefs. Just smile and nod, and refer to them by their name. Don’t make a big deal about it and hopefully neither will they. If they want to put they/them after their name in their email then who really cares? I think it’s nonsense but you don’t get to tell people how they should live their lives, it isn’t really any of your business.

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