John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

Are you 6? Choosing to argue over whether the being nominated at the BAFTAs constitutes ‘a special night’ shows you have no response to a valid point, so thanks.

We are each different. I do not have PTSD so I am not triggered by words like that. I am sorry that you have an ongoing struggle with this.

I am lucky not to have PTSD and therefore I can choose how I react when I understand the context of a situation. If I thought those words were called out on purpose by a person in order to emotionally harm me - I would be angry and upset. As a person informed of the context - no upset would occur. I would actually feel for the person who had involuntarily drawn huge negative attention to themselves when they were probably just trying to get through the evening.

I just can't see how the famous actors, knowing the context of John Davidsons utterances, could be at all offended by the words they heard.
They just must be very self absorbed and not able to understand the plight of other people. At all.

No he wasn't yelling.

He wasn't doing anything.

His brain was misfiring causing his body to do something that he wasnt in control of.

He doesn't have the capacity to prevent this.

This wasn't his action. This was a neurological symptom of a disability. Like an allergic reaction if you will.

It really is.

The concept of a target requires intent. Otherwise you are just randomly hitting something.

No one has said they’ve never experienced hardship. They haven’t got Tourette’s though
and I’d bet my last bottle of Sauv B they haven’t been through the shit John Davidson has been through, all through his life. All in the film/docs.

No I wouldn't say it's directed at individuals. I would say it's directed at situations.

Stress and excitement makes it worse - the person reacts to the situation they find themselves in. Their anxiety is about the situation not individuals.

Going to see the Queen whilst it's about an individual it's really about the situation of being on your best behaviour to meet someone you absolutely must be your most polite and respectful ever too. It's not about her as an individual.

Going to the BAFTAs is about the anxiety and excitement of the occasion and being on TV. And then you think, What's the worst thing I can do? Because you have been through it before and it's almost like a PTSD type response where you can't help but think the worst and then it becomes self forfilling.

Whoever was going on that stage at that moment was going to trigger an offensive tic. It just happened to be two black guys. If he had staged in the room he'd probably have said more. Because once you start off badly it's stresses and can send you spiralling.

Plenty of people who are 73 have lived through a lot for many reasons. That does not mean they have no ability to understand a condition like Tourettes.

Although this thread does reveal that many people are indeed seemingly incapable of understanding a condition like Tourettes.

It’s your field of vision that is narrow and excludes the lived experiences of two black men. My original point was that both John and MBJ and DL deserved to be included and celebrated on their special nights and they were all let down by BAFTA and the BBC, so get your facts straight.

Crazy logic 🙌🥰

That's just not true.

He wasn't yelling it at no one. He was yelling it at the two black men.

Again, I know he didn't want to, or intend to, but nonetheless they were the targets of that word.

Oh God yeah, another is ‘he never seems to tic in interviews’ 🙄

This is a really helpful comment, thank you!

It's like the command "don't think of an elephant" leads to thinking of elephants (bc your mind first conjures the thing, then applies the prohibition).

It sounds awful. I would hope that the vast majority of people would be understanding once they know you have Tourette's, though.

If there is no intent there can be no target.

The BBC should have sat down with those getting awards before the show and made them aware that something offensive might be yelled at them while on stage. They could have discussed possible reactions, so that those on stage would not have been taken by surprise, but would have had the chance to take control of the narrative and be empathetic at the same time. They could have explained again what Tourette's is or made an inclusive joke. They could have discussed possible responses with John Davidson. That would have been truly inclusive and in everyone's best interest.

Because they’re famous, they’ve never been through anything? I’m sure life went perfectly for 73 year old Delroy Lindo who grew up in the civil rights era 👍

The fact that a tics is situation specific does not mean that it is targeted at an individual.

If it was colour blind he would've called the Queen an N word, and the two black men a pair of queens.

I don't know why people argue that the Tourette's doesn't target people? Acknowledging that the words are 'chosen' by the brain based on appropriateness to the person they're shouted at is not the same thing as saying he has intent, he wanted to say it, he's racist, or he's targeting them. But the slurs or insults clearly 'match' the recipient.

I was trafficked as a child and someone shouting that at me might trigger my PTSD. (Note to whomever hates that word, I learned it from my doctors and psychotherapists. It's a perfectly valid word that accurately describes how certain events, stimuli, or situations can cause the inception or exacerbation of PTSD symptoms.) I know it is deeply hurtful to many black people even if they know the use is not intentional. It still hurts.

I also have Tourettes so I very much understand how verbal tics are involuntary. It reminds me of my PTSD in that both can be set off by external things and I have no control at all over them. I know how I'm prone to blurt out the most mortifying thing I can think of when I'm under stress. It's like the command "don't think of an elephant" leads to thinking of elephants (bc your mind first conjures the thing, then applies the prohibition). I would still feel awful if I blurted it out and would understand that some people are very likely to be hurt by it, even if they understand it was involuntary. If possible, I'd apologize for hurting them but I would also try to educate them about Tourettes and how I had no control over what I blurted out. With luck, they might explain their hurt and both sides would learn something. Or not but I would want to acknowledge that I'd unintentionally hurt them and that their hurt was real.

Nope. I’m saying that two black men should be able to go to film ceremony and not have to experience this while onstage in front of millions. If they unfortunately do, as in this case, that this negative experience and the embarrassment along with it can be recognised and not dismissed (not apologised for by John Davidson).

Still not telling me what I have done that is racist, or why.

I see you're not one of those people who has discussions, just one who get more and more high pitched and shouts the same insult again and again.

Good day to you sir.

I think the simplest way is to echo the PP - those who understand Tourette’s will not be offended by Tourette’s. That’s not to say those actors aren’t entitled to feel what they felt in that moment, but again to repeat, you would hope those two non-Tourette’s sufferers would show grace and compassion to John Davidson. And I hope they will and everyone else can go away and educate themselves.

Yes. So how are we disagreeing? I said: "I understand that his involuntary tics mean that he shouted the n word at them, without wanting to." and someone argued that it wasn't AT them. But it seems you agree that it is triggered by his brain making him say the least appropriate thing for the person. So towards/at/because of them, without any malicious intent on his part.

I haven't bothered collecting screenshots because the very widespread ableism & crass stupidity really were too much, but here's quite a mild example of the genre. There's plenty more.

Weirdly this demonstrates just how Tourettes is effectively 'colour blind'.

People with it say the most offensive thing for the situation they are presented with. It doesn't matter who. It's not targeted. It's not intentional.