John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

That is like understanding somebody with OCD who washes their hands until they are raw as somebody who really like cleanliness.

Neurological conditions like this manifest in different ways depending on the environment. That does not mean that there is any control, or intent.

I've seen one from years ago. It was the late 00's when it aired, I think (my children were babies, so it's all a bit hazy). But not the most recent film, no. I'd like to, though.

Well, I'll agree the condition causes the person to involuntarily say offensive words 'equally', as in to everyone, yes. Absolutely.

Putting someone in a luxury viewing room in the context of him getting an award for highlighting the every day normal life struggles of people with Tourettes and how others want to hide them away / institutionalise them because their behaviour is difficult to cope with is doing exactly the opposite to what the film is trying to achieve in terms of awareness.

It's about being able to live in the same world as everyone else. And being free and safe to do that.

Ha yeah maybe he did. Out of interest have you seen the documentaries/I Swear?

Fair enough, I do agree that there needs to be emphasis that it wasn't him choosing to shout it, it was his condition forcing him to do it very much against his will.

As for ginger pubes...very off-topic, but a lot of people who don't have ginger hair on their head still have gingery pubes 😂 So maybe Chopper did! But yes, I've read that sometimes the tics are just totally random verbal ejaculations. It must be mortifying to live with.

I agree with your sentiment about there being no reason to be offended (I do think people have the right to feel shocked, possibly even sad, but not place blame or pass judgement) however

Do people get offended when a severely autistic person in a supermarket makes loud noises too? No. Because that would be deeply inappropriate, unwarranted and, indeed, offensive.

I'm sorry to say that they do.

I've been approached by staff when my son has been making vocal stims, tics, groans, shrieks and asked if I can move, I've had other customers stop and stare and pass comments that my son shouldn't be in the supermarket with me if he can't cope. He was coping, he was just making noises. Been told that quiet hour should be quiet and my son is disturbing the peace and upsetting people, when we need to go at quiet hour for his sake. He loves the supermarket and is learning valuable life skills there. The story of my life with a high needs autistic child isn't unique either. People love to be offended by the presence of people with disabilities, as though they are victims purely for us being present in the world. Contrarily, people also love to be offended when we bring any tech with us to help him stay quiet and protect their peace, whether that's in supermarkets, cafes and restaurants, theme parks and even at school. People just find disabled folk offensive and refuse to acknowledge their internal ableism and think acceptance should be conditional on being able to behave as normally as possible.

I do understand all that, and it sounds horrible. Like an absolute nightmare to live with.

But you yourself said "Her body's response might be to lurch and gurn at them," (emphasis mine). So while she isn't doing anything 'at them' by choice, the condition is causing her body to do things 'at them'. Does that sound right?

No I think I agree with you here, except to single in on it wasn’t ‘him’ that shouted N, yes in the literal sense but I’d argue it was his tic.

Not always a visceral set off though, in the older documentary he shouts ‘Chopper has ginger pubes!’ when I don’t think Chopper was ginger (I could be wrong). In the group meeting with other sufferers they all joke about where the tics come from as sometimes they make no sense or have relevance.

Bollocks. Just bollocks. It offends equally and without discrimination.

Delroy Lindo has complained about the lack of contact from BAFTA and I’ve said the same re all of that regarding the handling of the situation from them and the BBC.

I have absolutely not put this all on the disabled person; the perfect outcome would’ve been for JD to mention MBJ and DL in his statement and for them to respond acknowledging it was due to his disability and inviting more education and learnings from the organisations. The onus is not 100% on the actors just because they’re rich and famous.

My friend doesn't do it at people. She will be in a situation and catch some staring. Her body's response might be to lurch and gurn at them, possibly with a verbal tics too. All whilst the rest of her brain is telling her to walk out the door. The effect is almost like her body is at odds with itself (which is exactly what it's doing). It actually hurts her because it's an unnatural movement being torn in two different directions. You can SEE it if you understand it.

She almost needs helping when it's that bad because she isn't fully in control. You can visibly tell she's not.

It's the situation. If people make comments she goes into a triggered mood of anxiety. Someone doing something or something in the situation is a trigger and her body responds to that. She doesn't.

It's difficult to explain.

It's really not about individuals. Her body is in fight or flight mode and responding to that. So it can and does respond to things her brain perceives as a threat or a risky situation. Anxiety over ticking badly and saying something bad is self fulfilling.

No. 🤯

So it was a total coincidence that his Tourette's made him shout 'n---r' when two black men were on stage, and he'd have used the same slur if they'd been two fat white women?

Recognised by BAFTA and the BBC, who clearly didn’t sit these two actors down and explain very carefully that Tourette’s means that they might have anything shouted at them.

If they were annoyed at the BBC and BAFTA I’d be cheering them on. If you were demanding the BBC and BAFTA recognise that the pre, during and after announcements weren’t sufficient I’d say you might have a point.

But you keep putting this on the disabled person whose disability means they had no control over what was said.

"Target", per Oxford Dictionary

1. a person, object, or place selected as the aim of an attack.

Nobody was selected.

Nobody was attacked.

Bullshit. You are willfully trying to characterise people with Tourettes as inheritantly racist. Calling the queen the n word isn't the most offensive thing for that situation. I have no doubt if someone with Tourettes met the queen tomorrow they'd start shouting Andrew is a nonce. Queen of Paedos. Or similar. Because that's the most offensive thing for the situation.

And this applies to every situation. Race comes into it because society seems it to be the most offensive thing, not because the person with Tourettes is racist.

It's a reflection of social expectations rather than an individual and how they feel.

Someone who gets it, perfectly said!

No, no, no - I think you need to go back and read the explanation again.

Thank you for patiently and politely explaining!

I agree with everything you say, except that the slurs and insults change and are dependent on who they're 'directed' at. Right?
So when the tic is an insult shouted towards someone, there is an element of the Tourette's 'targeting' whatever the most offensive thing is to say about that individual, isn't there?