John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

So why then are the words chosen dictated by the person that the Tourette's sufferer is speaking to, or focusing on? Saying, 'the tic was aimed at the two black men on stage' is a good shorthand for, 'the only reason that particular tic was used was because of the two black men on stage'.

If someone with Tourette's said to a woman (as I think was said on this thread?) 'I'll rape you with a spiked stick!' is that genuinely not at her, in your opinion?

And why do you mean, it's not capable of offending? Offence is not defined by the giver but by the receiver, when it comes to feelings. One could not intend offence but still cause it. That happens all the time!

Obviously, if one discovers the person didn't intend to say what they said, or to hurt your feelings, that will mitigate how you feel to a greater or lesser degree. But a person cannot dictate what another person may feel.

It's a weird hill to die on.

It's really not. Tourette's tells you to say the most inappropriate thing under stress in any environment, it's not aimed at anyone and it's not capable of offending. It's an act that can't be categorised this way.

If you argue otherwise, it's a weird hill to die on.

So you don't care about blatant racism, you only want to argue about the minute details of Tourette's? Alright then. Jeez.

Oh, so he did actually tic when female presenters were on stage? I didn't realise that.

But yes, I'm not sure why people want to simultaneously argue that Tourette's can cause a person to tic the most offensive thing possible for the situation they're in or person they're interacting with, and that it wasn't (involuntarily) 'aimed at' the two people on stage. It's a weird hill to die on.

The report button is that way. Take it up with management.

Tbh in a brake fail situation you would be unwise and to say sorry and actively advised not to because the other party may interpret that as an admission of liability.

If your brakes have failed there may be someone else who is liable. I mean you took them into the garage that morning to get them fixed, were told they were fixed and it turned out they weren't and the garage are liable...

In a sense your example is unintentionally good though for this reason. It is a scenario where the person with Tourettes doesn't bare liability because they can't be held responsible for the use of the words they say because their faulty brain is doing the driving not them. And by the same token saying sorry can be interpreted by some as an admission that they are responsible and liable. Even though they aren't.

No when the two woman were on stage he, involuntarily tic’d and shouted slags/slappers I believe as they were the corresponding taboo words.

Paedo/fat/bald/ugly/ginger/skinny/skanky Cunt etc

Quoting myself because I want the OP to see this and I feel it may have got lost in the ongoing racism argument last night. It took a while for me to articulate my thoughts.

OP it wasn't only you who had these thoughts when the competing rights issue came up. It's not the same thing no, but there are some aspects which are familiar.

I looked up corporolalia to find out exactly why some people neurological impairments use language which they know is offensive when they are ticking.

Someone described it as like trying to not imagine a pink elephant when someone has said pink elephant. That sort of make sense.

I still think it is fine for the peoples being called N*gger to be affronted by it. We don’t know in what context have heard that word before and they can have some feelings about it. We don’t have to choose sides here,

And year all the faux outrage about the BBC missing it (clearly accidentally) is a bit boring.

Has Lenny Henry weighed in yet? I can only imagine the level of indignant bullshit he'll bring to the conversation.

"Yes, the onus is on the two famous actors to show grace to the man who has a life destroying condition." I agree.

I think this young woman explained things really well and helped me to understand how difficult and tiring living with this neurological condition is:

Part One
https://www.tiktok.com/@sh4ysgrwm/video/7609862556240334094

Part Two:
https://www.tiktok.com/@sh4ysgrwm/video/7609867437638487310

Exactly that - 'performative outrage'

As a woman, I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a man saying fuck in my vicinity and neither would most women as it wasn’t in my direction, in front of thousands/millions and it’s a mundane everyday situation.

As a black person, having the N word shouted while I was on stage in front of a global audience on a night of celebration for my achievements would cause hurt and humiliation.

I think you can quite clearly see the difference and ‘vulnerability’ isn’t the issue.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

They weren't CALLED anything. A man with a disability said an unfortunate word in front of them (not TO them) because he couldn't help it . Oh woe and much gnashing of teeth etc. 🙄

Why are the two men on the stage (who have been warned about his tics) more vulnerable than a woman on the street?

And why can’t you see that this is a unique situation which might require a different approach to how he deals with his disability day to day? Maybe he shouldn’t waste his time apologising to a random woman in a supermarket for saying fuck within earshot (which I’ve seen him do in a video) and instead acknowledge the two men who were hurt and embarrassed on national TV.

Not sure how many more times I can say he doesn’t need to apologise. I believe he should make a public statement about it as the incident was in front of millions and because when he did address it, he failed to mention the two people involved. As I’ve said, it could be a good moment for mutual empathy with a public response from MBJ and DL and then the whole thing can be put to bed.

His Tourettes isn't a one off situation like brakes failing. It's his entire life.

Can you not see the difference between having a severely life limiting disability and your example of a fender bender?

I actually think its entirely likely at this point that the people involved have spoken to each other, but you seem to want a public apology.

Yes, I agree it's unfair to want to exclude people because of a disability like this.

He shouldn't have been restricted to a VIP box, although maybe something like that should be offered, so he has a choice to both be there, and not have his tics noticed? But it shouldn't be pushed on him at all.

He also shouldn't be blamed for something he can't control, although I think personally (not a moral judgement on others) I'd apologise in this case - and it seems he has made a few statements that express his mortification.

The BBC should have protected both him and the black actors better from a media furore by bleeping out the word.

I do think that some of the racism that has been displayed by some of the people discussing the issue has been disturbing, though. I also think that some people are being obtuse and unable to see things from others' perspectives in regards to people potentially feeling upset by the tics (while still not blaming Davidson).

Imagine wanting people with Tourette’s to spend their whole lives apologising for their disability.

Or thinking they should stay in a plush vip box

Or just not be at a ceremony at all

Their disability is offensive. And although they like to think they’re inclusive, none of this is apparently problematic

Stop deliberately misunderstanding what I’ve said. Neither myself or the actors have blamed JD for this. And I don’t need you to explain his condition to me.

The statement you want him to make is to say that this painful and hurtful disability has yet again caused pain and hurt. Why? So that Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo can recognise that John Davison understands the disability he’s had to live with all his life?
We live in a civilised society where even if you unintentionally hurt someone you can still acknowledge it. Especially in such a public way involving such a horrible term. If JD is a decent person, he’d have empathy and look to address it directly in this extreme circumstance. We’d also expect the actors to reciprocate that empathy but it should be mutual as they were both in a horrible situation.

As referenced earlier, if my brakes fail and I hit someone, I’d want to see that they’re OK, recognise the pain they felt and express that I wish it didn’t happen, even though I didn’t intend it. I wouldn’t just say ‘I couldn’t control the car; it’s not my fault, take it up with the car company’. The consensus that JD shouldn’t show any compassion or understanding for MBJ and DL’s experience in this specific situation because he has a disability is a point of view I don’t agree with and that’s what I’ve been doubling down on. If you don’t agree, frankly I do not care.

They’re feeding off the attention you’re giving them. I also salute your efforts btw, but they’re either being purposely cringy or genuinely are totally ignorant.

Maybe it’s because only you think it’s a problem and we’ve already discovered why.

there is no racism here. If there was you could point at it.

what a week to be alive!

And yet….

here you are…..

And I’m still waiting for someone to explain the racism or indeed back up their point

and I’ve got a fat pile of thanks hearts support etc on that comment so clearly not just me. Lighten up. This whole thing has made my week.