John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

You had posts deleted because you said things which questioned his underlying beliefs and implied that he was being racist. After it being explained to you several times why it wasn't.

Can people read? I’ve said I understand the impact on the actors of hearing the word. It’s literally in my post you quoted - ‘They were offended by an offensive involuntary tic. It’s not difficult to understand why. ‘

Wild.

Because, again, intent and impact. Just because he didn’t intend to hurt, the impact is pain. It’s not his fault, he didn’t mean it AND people are upset. Why can’t you understand the nuance of the situation? And yes, the BBC, whom as a daily listener of their radio stations I often defend, are the villains here. They didn’t enough care into stopping the broadcast, they didn’t protect John. They haven’t protected Michael and Delroy because the clip is being used as a racist baton by vile racists online.

You can support John by not minimising how Michael and Delroy felt and potentially still feel. We don’t have to dismiss the feelings of those affected to support John, it is possible to feel for all involved at the upset and direct your anger towards those who had the power and opportunity to at least reduce the fall out but did not, and use this opportunity to educate, instead of arguing that people are not allowed to be hurt by a racist slur purely because of the circumstances of its use.

You have said "recent threads", yes the dynamic has changed.
But at the start of this there were quite a few posters calling him racist and showing a complete lack of understanding about torrettes.
Some have listened and nwounderstand.
Some have stayed and the discussion has progressed.

But even now that JD has reached out and apologised (se the variety article) some people are still out for his blood and always will be.

This should never have been an either or discussion.
It should never have been about who has 'had the worst life'.
It should have been about how we can have compassion amd understanding for both sides and how the BBC and the BAFTAs massivally fucked up in how it was handled before, during and after the event.

Even now the BBC and the BAFTAs will be trying to slide the issue on to other people.

And once again I will say it shows what a performative grift DEI, inclusion and bekind is too many people and corporations, when the disabled man whose life and movie that they came to celebrate has been castigated because he doesn't fit in to the noce little box that they had for him.

Why do I need to do that? They were offended by an offensive involuntary tic. It’s not difficult to understand why. He also tic-ed towards a white man. That’s not important though.
There’s no villains here. It’s the people who don’t understand Tourette’s who are the problematic ones. The comments are still continuing ‘ooh but why is it race and not x, y, z’, implying he has control, and various ignorant comments, and the constant trying to find racism when there is none. I’d rather watch I Swear again.

It’s a BAFTA winning film, I’m sure it’ll be a brilliant, informative watch. While I do that, you should go and watch a documentary on black history so you can educate yourself too.

Switch your brain on. @OtterlyAstounding has said pretty much the same as me throughout the discussion; two people who heard a slur deserve some consideration and compassion in that moment (as does the person whose condition caused them to say it) and you think that translates to victimisation? It’s you that needs to educate yourself on the impact of the N word and ask yourself why you’re so determined to be right or ‘win’.

What a smug, self-satisfied, self-congratulatory post. It genuinely made me feel sick to read this. Patting yourself on the back for being better than others because you think black people should be ‘better’ than being offended at being publicly called the N word, but sadly aren’t. And you are so disappointed in them for this.

It’s not about J being racist. It’s about the fact his insults are culturally created. They aren’t his individual, unique thoughts. They are drawn from the culture in society. This is why your assessment that it signifies ‘nothing’ is entirely wrong. So when he shouted N at those two successful black men, who were publicly being recognized, it was a reminder to black people of the culture they live in where, no matter what they achieve and what they do, there are still people, too many people, who will still see them ‘just’ as ‘Ns’ . And when everyone rushed to defend J, and to tell black people they needed to be kinder, people like you, it was a reminder to black people of this culture where they are ‘just’ and will never matter as much as others. It seems to me a lot of the offense has been caused to black people by the reaction, reactions like yours, to what J said.

So instead of telling others to do ‘better’ and be more like you, look in the mirror at yourself as someone who needs to be better.

@FrippEnos Off-topic but it's been years since I heard No Pussyfooting, thank you for the username prompt to play it.

More than two parties were affected. It’s been acknowledged. Go and watch the film.

The issue on MN has been that JD's supporters have refused to call him racist and this has upset quite a few of the usual suspects.

That's not true, reading through the last few pages of the recent threads. People seem to want validation that it was hurtful and that it's acceptable to feel hurt, and also some people think he should apologise while still acknowledging he couldn't help it. And some people feel frustrated that black people seem to be expected to accept the N word being used and broadcast (whether involuntary or not), and feel that the impact of the word is being minimised.

I've seen very few people call him racist.

The broadcast started at 7pm, with an actual start time of approximately 5pm to account for the two hour delay right? Social media has red carpet pics of MBJ at 4-4.30pm, meaning he probably arrived just before that, so no I don’t think he was sitting in the venue hours before and was almost certainly backstage during the host’s intro ready to come out and present the first award. So come up with another way he should’ve been well versed in JD’s tics? Sometimes it’s ok to say ‘my bad, probably got that wrong’, I promise it won’t hurt.

And no one’s offended, I’m here to remind you that there were two parties affected in this situation when you are absolutely determined for it to be just one.

The history attached to that slur does not disappear because it wasn't intentional. Impact on others matters.

So, if I've understood this correctly, the word "n***" is always offensive, even if the person using it doesn't intend it to be offensive.

Surely, in that case, every time a Black person uses the word "n*" whether in rap music or just in conversation with friends, then it's offensive, because someone might perceive it as such. Is that right?

The inability to see nuance in this situation is not just down to JD supporters.
I will go further and say that most of JD's supporters see the nuance that should be seen here.
The issue on MN has been that JD's supporters have refused to call him racist and this has upset quite a few of the usual suspects.
JD is not racist he is a disabled man with torrettes who blurted out a horrific word due to his disability.
There was no intent, he is not racist.
And people are rightly defending this.

Most /all of JD's supporters also recognise that the word is horrific and will have a massive impact on black and brown people and this should not be discounted or minimised.

But that it should also be recognised that these threads where started due to a disabled man being castagated for something that he cannot help and the irony is that he was at the baftas for a film that was made to educate people about torrettes.

There are some people in this thread who should stop posting & instead watch I Swear, the film about John Davison that took him to the BAFTAs.

They might learn something.

My comments that were deleted were mostly interactions with a racist troll, just FYI.

It's a shame to see the inability to acknowledge nuance on this thread. I can see why black and brown mumsnetters have mostly hidden these threads.

Easy to ask 'what comments' when you've made so many offensive comments that most got deleted, for the right reasons. Yet you're still totally blind to it and in your preceding post you're victmising yourself again. There's a lot of soul searching and education that is needed here.

Honestly I do not know kind of society we live in that so many people feel entitled to put their 'hurt feelings' on a pedestal above a disability. It's a rotten society and we need a good hard brake on this.

Intent is one thing, impact is another. They are very different. The intent wasn’t there, but the impact was. Both of these things can be true.

We need to stop whipping ourselves up into fucking frenzies and listen to the people involved and open up reasonable discussion. People are so intent on being fucking angry and having a go at someone that they lose all sense of what is right.

Do you think the presenting of the first award is the first interaction of the night? Have you heard of a presenter? Warm up?

Honestly do you guys not get offence fatigue.

There had been several tic outbursts from John in advance of this award being presented.

It is so ironic. All the swooning over the film, then all the bemoaning over the reality.

I have to say, red, you're a brilliant advocate for this.

Maybe another day, or another lifetime you would do it full-time!

Believe me until I'd seen my friend in the midst of a really bad one never had I too!

It's unusual for her to be that bad but it deeply affected her and she was so upset about it for some time afterwards. Not just days but weeks. She completely beat herself up over it. She kept thinking she was ruining things. She wasn't. It was hard to see her distress more than anything else. And she feels guilty over this so that sets her off too! I think it took some time for her tics to fully settle down as a result because she was stewing over it.

The next day she had sore muscles in her jaw because she strained them with her physical tics. She was physically exhausted too because of the effort she'd used trying to get her body to do what she wanted. And yes of course there's the emotional drain of it.

She's been hospitalised several times due to mental health issues related to her issues. She has a little boy and she constantly feels like she's failing him and is a bad parent.

She has a terrible relationship with her in-laws because of the condition too. They told her son to divorce her and take full custody. I think the whole story ranks as one of the worst MIL stories I've heard and I've been on MN a long time!

Can you imagine the stress of going to the nativity or realising you can't go because you don't want to embarrass your child and feeling like you are letting him down by not going like all the other parents?!

She's American but no longer lives there. Again imagine the scenarios and how it really is a life threatening condition through no fault of your own and the actions of others. Some of her tics are interesting. There's lots of references to God and from how they characterise I suspect she's been told she's going to hell a lot and that she's full of sin. You know almost like she needs to be exorcised for demons within her rather than recognising it as a medical and neurological condition.

It was a worthwhile lesson for me and if I can convey some of just have debilitating and isolating it is, I think it will help her indirectly. She's the sweetest of people and so unaware of it at the same time. Id happily spend more time with her but circumstances don't really allow for it ATM.