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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

866 replies

slet · 24/02/2026 15:39

It’s interesting how this is being discussed atm. I see Ash Sarkar has framed it as an example of competing rights between disabled people and victims of racism, forgetting about intersectionality. But there is a struggle from those on the extreme left to see how women’s rights are compromised by ceding to TRAs.

not expressing myself very well but thought it had some interesting parallels with the sex and gender debate.

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BackToLurk · 26/02/2026 08:30

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 26/02/2026 07:28

You have no idea how racist that sounds. Treating people differently because of how much melanin they have in their skin....

Nah. No different to saying “men don’t get to set the rules for female communities”. Although now I appreciate how tricky that may be for you to understand.

PachacutisBadAuntie · 26/02/2026 08:19

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/02/2026 02:48

Thanks for the link to the article 👍

I watched this analysis from a Norwegian media/culture commentator discussing the differing responses from the US and the UK - I thought it was interesting too:

That was a very interesting analysis, and makes it clear how context specific the different reactions are. I would say that this thread demonstrates how that applies to individuals as well as countries.

@RedToothBrush I hope you are getting some sleep and feel better soon 💐

Datun · 26/02/2026 08:03

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:38

I want to cry.

By the time I, and most people read it, it's gone

OtterlyAstounding · 26/02/2026 07:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 26/02/2026 07:28

OtterlyAstounding · 26/02/2026 00:22

Its not my fight to have but like RedToothBrush I believe that it does muddy the waters.

How? Maybe within the Black community, yeah, but in the, 'if you're not black, don't use it' realm, the waters are crystal clear.

You have no idea how racist that sounds. Treating people differently because of how much melanin they have in their skin....

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 07:10

TomPinch · 26/02/2026 06:19

I've found your posts on this thread well worth reading. I hate that you feel you have to apologise for the gif, though I'm not sure what you were intending to convey to me by it.

If Davison himself requested that his comments be edited then my point is by the by, but I think editing a person with Tourettes when they are at an award ceremony specifically for their work in that area would look very bad from a slightly different angle.

(I understand that the BBC did edit out a an award recipient who shouted 'Free Palestine'.)

I hope you feel better very soon. 🌺

I'm torn if I'm honest. I think we run the risk of sanitising the reality of Tourettes with censorship especially given the situation and the purpose of the film. Part of me does think that rather than normalising censorship of Tourettes tics that we just have to ignore it no matter how awful it is. BUT it also upset him as much as it's upsetting others so it's clearly wasn't the answer in this situation.

Plus I do think one of the issues with the whole scenario which I mentioned up thread is that you are only hearing the audio, which in itself lacks context.

If we could see and hear him, you have a much better understanding that it's a Tourettes tic. That makes you process the situation differently because your own response is different because you have more context from which to feed back what is happening and what the intention is.

One of my friend tics turns out to be constantly touching my arm. It's extremely irritating but I also knew immediately the first time she did it she was finding me calming somehow from reading the situation. So you kind of put up with it through gritted teeth. She later explained that touching things can help because it gives her brain an alternative stimulation which helps distracts it from the intrusive thoughts which made a lot of sense. Her brain was essentially reassuring itself and she'd focused on me as a 'safe individual'. I have no idea why she did this. There were others there who know her much better than I do. I perhaps understand anxiety issues better because of my own issues. I don't know. She explained it as form of grounding which is a technique for dealing with anxiety which I've heard of before. She was also using fidget spinners for the same reason.

To me just putting up with it and just getting on and ignoring it was very instinctive. It was not just merely being polite. It seemed to be what she was needing in that moment so I went with it. As I say I didn't know she had Tourettes before this occasion until I was in a situation where she couldn't exactly hide it. And even then she didn't immediately explain it.

It's a case of getting all the visual, verbal and other social cues that help you understand the situation. When you remove just one element of that you don't necessarily appreciate what's happening in full. Communication is a whole range of things. How we understand others isn't just from what they say, its how they say it, the context of what they say, their body language etc etc.

I guess it's probably a reasonable adjustment for all concerned especially because he requested it. It makes sense to edit vocal without all that behind that too.

I don't know. I don't know how you would live with it on a day to day basis. I don't know how you get people to understand that it's effectively someone acting out their worst nightmare in public and having no control of it and help them to understand there's very little that we can do to mitigate the situation apart from explaining and just carry on. I don't know how you manage an unmanageable situation.

TomPinch · 26/02/2026 06:19

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:48

I don't even know how I did that apart from being fat fingered. That's the worst gif to have come up too. I'm so sorry sorry.

I can't apologise enough.

I've found your posts on this thread well worth reading. I hate that you feel you have to apologise for the gif, though I'm not sure what you were intending to convey to me by it.

If Davison himself requested that his comments be edited then my point is by the by, but I think editing a person with Tourettes when they are at an award ceremony specifically for their work in that area would look very bad from a slightly different angle.

(I understand that the BBC did edit out a an award recipient who shouted 'Free Palestine'.)

I hope you feel better very soon. 🌺

OtterlyAstounding · 26/02/2026 06:05

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:56

Thank you. It still looks utterly inappropriate in the context of what we've been talking about and deletions on this thread already though. I appreciate that comment a lot.

Hopefully Mumsnet will take care of it 😅 And I didn't want to read and run when you felt bad about it! I'm sure, considering your in-depth and thoughtful comments on this thread (even if we may disagree) that people aren't going to think you're the sort to be goady with gifs!!

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:56

Thank you. It still looks utterly inappropriate in the context of what we've been talking about and deletions on this thread already though. I appreciate that comment a lot.

OtterlyAstounding · 26/02/2026 05:50

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:33

I'm going to apologise for that post. I'm fat fingered and pressed a gif which is utterly inappropriate for this thread and looks terrible. I have also reported immediately.

I'm so sorry. That was not intentional and I'm mortified.

Happily, it's not that inappropriate!! Just a little confusing, because at first I thought you were agreeing with TomPinch's take, but then you disagreed (or rather, clarified the situation).

It's a shame Mumsnet don't let you edit the gif or quoted post, just text.

Edit: My kids like Speed, so I was like, 'oh hey, it's ishowspeed!' 😁

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:48

I don't even know how I did that apart from being fat fingered. That's the worst gif to have come up too. I'm so sorry sorry.

I can't apologise enough.

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:38

I want to cry.

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:33

I'm going to apologise for that post. I'm fat fingered and pressed a gif which is utterly inappropriate for this thread and looks terrible. I have also reported immediately.

I'm so sorry. That was not intentional and I'm mortified.

RedToothBrush · 26/02/2026 05:31

TomPinch · 26/02/2026 03:54

It would have been discrimination to exclude John Davison from the awards ceremony. Why then wouldn't it discrimination to edit out the words he said?

Are they doing that to anyone else?

He has said he did ask for this to be done and attended on the basis of this, for his own well being.

So no it's not discrimination in those circumstances as he asked for it as a reasonable adjustments to protect his dignity.

This was so he wouldn't be subject to a shit load of abuse on social media if he said something offensive. Which clearly utterly failed.

I've tried editing this post to remove inappropriate picture but it won't let me.

I'm sincerely mortified and I know how bad it looks. It was a complete accident. It's 5.36am I'm not sleeping. I'm stressed and it looks terrible.

I have self reported immediately to MN.

That could not have been worse if I actually tried.

frenchnoodle · 26/02/2026 05:28

TomPinch · 26/02/2026 03:54

It would have been discrimination to exclude John Davison from the awards ceremony. Why then wouldn't it discrimination to edit out the words he said?

Are they doing that to anyone else?

They edit out loads of stuff from events all the time.

And no editing out things to keep a disabled persons dignity isn't discrimination. 🤦

TomPinch · 26/02/2026 03:54

It would have been discrimination to exclude John Davison from the awards ceremony. Why then wouldn't it discrimination to edit out the words he said?

Are they doing that to anyone else?

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/02/2026 02:48

PachacutisBadAuntie · 25/02/2026 22:26

Thanks for the link to the article 👍

I watched this analysis from a Norwegian media/culture commentator discussing the differing responses from the US and the UK - I thought it was interesting too:

NotBadConsidering · 26/02/2026 01:11

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 25/02/2026 22:55

Jamie Foxx is not all Black people.

Who said he was?

I was pointing out the example of how the discussion around the word is not anything to do with reclamation, it’s about its intended use.

GoldThumb · 26/02/2026 01:09

2021x · 26/02/2026 01:00

Jesus....They made a mistake. They managed everything else going on that night and they just missed this one thing. They apologised and they changed it after the fact.

It is possible to recognise that this a disability AND it would have been confronting to hear that word in that context. There are no sides to be picked. Anyone who needs "educating" on either side can do that with google. \

A few weeks ago there was an street interview with a middle aged black british woman. She said it was a disgusting word and should be treated as such. She said that the fact it is used so widely in popular music will cause an issue, because if you are in a crowd only half of the group can sing a long. Behaviour like that reinforces racial divides and will cause further disruption.

Edited

They made a series of mistakes.

A two hour lag to edit something that has been specifically brought to their attention?

No-one bothering to speak to Michael or Delroy afterwards.

Having a mic in the audience, right in front of where John was sitting.

Well, at least they got their publicity and clicks I guess.

2021x · 26/02/2026 01:00

GoldThumb · 25/02/2026 20:32

Yep.
And how can you ‘not hear it’ when it’s been specifically brought to your attention, and you’ve said you’ll remove from the edit.

They knew what they were fucking doing.

Jesus....They made a mistake. They managed everything else going on that night and they just missed this one thing. They apologised and they changed it after the fact.

It is possible to recognise that this a disability AND it would have been confronting to hear that word in that context. There are no sides to be picked. Anyone who needs "educating" on either side can do that with google. \

A few weeks ago there was an street interview with a middle aged black british woman. She said it was a disgusting word and should be treated as such. She said that the fact it is used so widely in popular music will cause an issue, because if you are in a crowd only half of the group can sing a long. Behaviour like that reinforces racial divides and will cause further disruption.

OtterlyAstounding · 26/02/2026 00:22

Its not my fight to have but like RedToothBrush I believe that it does muddy the waters.

How? Maybe within the Black community, yeah, but in the, 'if you're not black, don't use it' realm, the waters are crystal clear.

OtterlyAstounding · 26/02/2026 00:18

FrippEnos · 25/02/2026 22:21

So it has to be performative.

It's not about being performative, it's about making sure a space doesn't tolerate or appear to endorse racist language.

When similar comments were made about Tourette's, they were challenged, vigorously. But racism? Silence.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 25/02/2026 23:53

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 25/02/2026 23:46

Maybe you’ve not been to a school
in a while but they have enthusiastically embraced every slur you can think of.

Oh, I know. It's depressing and getting worse. I don't envy anyone who works in a school. The profession is losing brilliant teachers every year.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 25/02/2026 23:46

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 25/02/2026 23:44

I agree there is no place for slurs in schools.

In an ideal world schools would be unifying spaces, but they are more divisive than ever.

Edited

Maybe you’ve not been to a school
in a while but they have enthusiastically embraced every slur you can think of.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 25/02/2026 23:44

FrippEnos · 25/02/2026 23:36

I would say that it happens in all communities when slurs are used against them.
I am not going to gatekeep what words communities call themselves even if the some of the community disagree.

Its not my fight to have but like RedToothBrush I believe that it does muddy the waters.

But as I posted before, When in the classroom I (and any teacher) would not allow any pupil of any ethnicity to use slurs even if aimed at pupils of the same ethnicity. So there are exceptions.

I agree there is no place for slurs in schools.

In an ideal world schools would be unifying spaces, but they are more divisive than ever.

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