Baby born from dead donor womb transplant in UK first

Who debated it? When and where?

'It was decided'.

Nobody can consent on behalf of others.

It is when it comes to donating. The debates about the ethics of this were debated at the time. As the overwhelming majority of us would want a donated organ if we needed one, it was decided that actively opting out would benefit the majority.

Consent should never be assumed.

Now that's something I hadn't thought about.

Mmmm not sure how I feel about that. The gene must be passed down somehow, it didn't come from no where.
Where did the mother get it from?
Is it one of those genes thats pretty rare and you need to inherit 2 dodgy ones to actually inherit the condition?

More questions than answers!

No.

But the law is such that in this instance, if you don’t opt out, your consent is assumed.

I’m ok with this. It isn’t like surrogacy.

Anyone who would take or let their children take a donor organ should accept this. It isn’t Frankenstein esk or squeamish any more than a lung transplant.

For the donor and their family how good to know that they have given the most precious gift and the recipient and their family are very fortunate.

I think it's a good thing, and the Frankenstein type concerns are no more than fear a baby will have trauma from being conceived by IVF and briefly in a test tube. I'd be happy for a women without one to have my womb after I died, I have had infertile friends and the impulse that I wished I could do something to help.

However, I'm already very medicalised, I've had lots of lifesaving surgeries and take strong medication. So this doesn't feel as big a step as it might for a healthy person for whom everything goes to plan. My medication and pregnancy were managed, medically, nobody suggested I should have a baby at all.

The only downside I can see is that I think endless options can prevent acceptance. I'm not sure we, as a population of women, are happier since IVF. Some individually are, but some have taken a financial hit and spent years holding on to a sliver of hope rather than moving on. If this became something else for desperate people to pin their hopes on,I can see a lot of people wasting their 30s and 40s. Hopefully it will only be for people with no other option rather than added to the infertility pathway.

'This service lets you choose to donate all, some or none of the following organs and tissue:

• Heart
• Lungs
• Kidneys
• Liver
• Corneas
• Pancreas
• Tissue
• Small bowel'

Tissue covers some organs but also.includes 'tissue', which is unspecified.

I haven't read every comment but has anyone pointed out that this boy will carry the MRKH gene that made his mother unable to carry children and pass it on? I am uneasy about the implications on ensuring faulty genetics survive.

Do you think people with a kidney, heart, cornea etc transplant are like Frankenstein?
How is this different,?

It’s not any different from any other organ, don’t see the issue.

True!!

Oh, us New Zealanders are great at killing babies and abusing children - well high up in the stats. Go us!

And the fact that the authorities are incredibly reluctant to take children into care, almost entirely refuse to foster outside ethnicity (to the point that they have tried/succeeded in taking happy and thriving children away from foster parents because they were white), and don't allow for adoption really doesn't help.

Not allowing for adoption at all is not a path a country should go down.

Part of the v thorough adoption process is meant to identify parents who will not accept a non birth child. Family members are interviewed to see if they will accept a non bio child. Attachment disorder has usually already happened from previous trauma the child has experienced. None of this is infallible of course but these problems are well known and the processes are meant to weed out the parents where it wouldn't work .

First principles, precedents, abuse of process, and slippery slopes are all also issues with the change from donor opt-in to 'assumed consent'.

I imagine the surgeons are looking at all the young women who voluntarily have organs removed in the hope of being more masculine. Hopefully the numbers will be reducing but the trans lobby does have an influence on this.

@ArabellaScott The NHS explains what it means by "tissue" here https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/about-organ-donation/tissue-donation/
The woman who womb was used had opted in to be a donor but her parents were also asked if they agreed, they did.

It’s worth remembering that the circumstances in which a woman would benefit from a donated uterus are very rare. Unlike surrogacy. Obviously if it happens to one woman that’s still too many but there won’t be large numbers of women being trafficked for this purpose.

IMO the main ethical issue is that the state have decided they have the right to take body parts from people without explicit, informed consent.

I don't see this as any different to any other organ transplant.

A belief that the baby will develop an attachment to the dead womb donor sounds like the premise of a crap horror film where the serial killers heart you received causes you to start murdering people- it doesn't surprise me that some people are stupid enough to believe that kind of woo though.

I wouldn't have thought sticking a womb in a man will enable him to give birth, so I don't think TW will be able to benefit from this, however many social media videos they do about it.

In the UK maybe. They are not always enforced as this article shows though.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/record-home-affairs-committee-more-india-vietnamese-b2530557.html

Knowledge is shared. In some countries eg India many women have been coerced, forced or left with no financial choice but to become surrogate. Now that surrogacy is banned in India coercing women into donating their wombs may be viewed as the next best thing.

Nice.

Adoption does not always sever the link if it is safe for the child to have contact with their birth family. Social care work hard to keep families together, adoption breakdown occurs because the trauma lived by the child is too ingrained often because of the length of time they are left with birth family. In a civilised society, we protect the vulnerable which includes children and if the state didnt step in, child deaths would occur

Yes, I had a card and had selected which body parts I wanted to donate.

Now, consent is assumed unless specifically withdrawn. Its also now described as 'tissue' as well as specific organs.

So we can assume so long as nobody objects to something, they are consenting?

You dont foresee any problems with this?

I find it utterly horrifying.

@ArabellaScott I had a donor card for years and now I'm opted in to some, not all. Anyone can choose (although it doesnt list womb yet) here - www.organdonation.nhs.uk/uk-laws/organ-donation-law-in-england/