Baby born from dead donor womb transplant in UK first

What alternatives in this situation?

If a family had a long list of genetic issues that meant their child would have a very hard life or never be able to procreate and they deliberately set about creating such a child for their own sense of "wellbeing" I certainly would judge them.

Ah the old "Don't have fertility treatment adopt!" trope 🙄

Funny how no one ever admonishes fertile women for wanting their own children when there are so many just waiting to adopt isn't it? No one ever berates pregnant women for making more kids when there are so many unloved ones do they!?

No one ever "needs" a womb transplant. That's the difference.

Because most would consent to an organ transplant if needed. You can't have one without the other.

Yeah but people need lung and kidney transplants bc otherwise they'll die. A woman won't die if she doesn't give birth to a child it is purely a wish fulfillment thing, like plastic surgery. There are many children in need of good homes throughout the world why put all this effort, expense, and energy into a non life-saving procedure when there are so many alternatives for people to start a family?

There were also lots of people who'd accept a donor organ who didn't have donor cards.

It was also to make it easier to have the conversation with families for Doctors.

There is actually very few people who are able to donate. Basically you need to be on lifesupport free of cancer and infection. So essentially its people who have had accidents that are able to donate.

It will definitely have been the subject of surveys - have a google.

One of the reasons for the opt out was that when asked a much larger % of people saying they want to donate than have registered to do so. This suggests a lot of lost donations due to inertia which is a shame. The argument was that people who feel strongly will opt out people who don't care either way will be happy to donate.

A womb is not a hip, or a lung or a kidney.

You will live without a womb.
It's hard to live with one not working right.

Endometriosis affects approximately 10% (around 190 million) of women and girls of reproductive age globally.

I think we should concentrate research on to improving their lives.

And if this Womb charity don't currently plan to put them in men, rest assured someone else is planning to do just that.

' it seems to be felt that the majority would consent to organ donation'

What is this feeling based on, I wonder?

Thank you for directly engaging with my points. I dont see it as a derail, tbh, as the consent issue seems fundamental.

Consent is not a simple matter when it comes to medical ethics.

In many cases, active consent is dismissed in favour of presumed consent where it is considered to be in the best medical interests of the patient, or in this case, patients multiple.

It's a debate that could be had endlessly and never come to a true resolution - is it better to assume consent and save another life or lives, or does the principle of individual consent override all? Which is more ethical?

I don't wish to derail the thread, because we could get into numerous detailed "what if" scenarios, but suffice to say that there is no one "right" answer, we have to have some kind of system (which is always going to be considered unethical by some, regardless of what it is), and presently it seems to be felt that the majority would consent to organ donation and so here we are.

It was David Lammy's 'transwoman's cervix' that prompted me to opt out of the organ donor register. I realised that it would only take one ambitious surgeon to decide that a set of female reproductive organs would be just the thing to implant in their male patient who 'feels like a woman' for it to be tried eventually. Functionality wouldn't necessarily be required. Given the horrors the NHS has already happily visited on trans people, and their general attitude to women, I can't see anyone stopping it.

There used to be campaigns and stands, and you filled in your details and carried a card. That was a good system.

What next? Seeking blood donors is too much of a faff? Kidney donors hard to find? Pass a bill, assume consent, problem solved!

'Hospital noticeboards' are not sufficient to inform a population. If its so important, the NHS could ask everyone for consent directly.

Still not applicable here.

It is well signposted on every hospital notice board. It was very well publicised.

You can only speak for yourself. Others may feel differently.

A reasonable first point, thank you.

So some situations assume consent.

I dont think this de facto broadens out to assumed consent being a 'simple' matter.

I dont think everyone is aware of the need to opt out. If someone is not aware, its not reasonable to assume consent.

My inability to have children is NOT a disability, What a bizarre thing for you to say..

That's incorrect.

Eye/cornea transplants for one. Rarely life saving but definetely life changing.

Consent should absolutely be assumed in certain situations. If someone is wheeled into A&E, unconscious and bleeding out, you assume their consent to treatment, for example.

The organ donation point is very simple - if you don't consent, you can opt out. Just like if you don't consent to be resuscitated you can put a DNACPR in place.

I've noticed a few threads, such as this one, seem to have been moved onto this board, and I'm wondering why? Is the 'feminist general chat' thread no longer a thing?

I took that as them offering helpful advice as you seem worried about it.

The womb is not on the list of organs a person can agree to donate. In the article it says that permission was sought from the family, after the woman died. She had already agreed to donate other organs.

Did someone say ' manufacture of consent'?