JCJ / Bindel discourse on X

Sounds like she would be happy taking a leaf out of Mridul Wadhw's book and instructing women to "reframe their trauma" if they mentioned that their rapist was not white and of a religion anything other than Christian.

Ah, yes, of course.

Ali Ceesay is also one of the Directors of Brighton’s “Sisters Heal” CIC.

I would argue that the thing that motivates the police is often following the option that gives them the quietest life. That's why they don't want riots. It's why they are happy to do DEI stuff because it gives them something to show to easily dispel the accusations of racism. They don't might having racism in the ranks because it's a pain in the arse to otherwise deal with beyond those DEI exercises in looking like they are doing something but really doing fuck all.

A lot of it is driven by limited funding and an inability to do more anyway.

Doing 'the right thing' requires funding and to be backed solidly by politicians. Unfortunately politics has got itself into the habit of cheap swipes and easy wins on social media based on outrage rather than meaningful solutions so that in itself hinders the police.

It's all about pr and optics not resolving issues.

Probably for the best, ISTR she was pretty unhinged.

Ali Ceesay is probably the one Julie Bindel is referring to - see screenshot.

Why is JB being so coy about naming her??

Ceesay is part of the purer-than-thou Brighton mob running "Sisters Salon" and was a Director of WPUK.

Ceesay aka "HanoverHussy" has deleted her X account but not due to being called out on her disgusting behaviour, she was unrepentant. Probably just another Musk-takeover-refusenik.

Ceesay was also running the CAN-SG account at the same time she was calling a grooming gang survivor a racist. Don't know if she still runs the CAN-SG X account.

Jayne Egerton (BBC producer, anti-Zionist conspiracy monger, ersatz GC, TRA shill and ex-Admin of the "Actual Gender Critical Left" Facebook Group) has also accused grooming gang survivors of being racists but not to their faces. Arguably a racist herself as she has focussed her hounding of Kellie-Jay Keen's supporters on black members of Let Women Speak.

There are other vile specimens here who, like Ceesay, were responding to Ellie's question:
https://x.com/eille_sselt/status/1824817069084336474

You won't see Ceesay's comments because she has deleted her X account.

Who is the hard leftist that isn’t JCJ? There are a couple but I’m not sure exactly who she’s referring to.

Thanks @POWNewcastleEastWallsend, really interesting post.

The gang convicted in Gateshead last year was made up of Albanian and Romanian men.

Hi WarriorN I wish I hadn't opted for such a long User Name! I have been tempted a few times to change it to something shorter but that could get confusing.

I think you are referring to this post, about the history of "race riots" in different parts of the UK and how this might have contributed to the marked difference in the response of different police forces when they were alerted to the existence of grooming gangs:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5355023-5355023-keir-starmer-to-launch-grooming-gangs-inquiry-that-will-make-witnesses-testify?page=6&reply=145099909

The one outlier, as far as I am aware, is Newcastle upon Tyne, where there was no history of race riots. The response from social services and Northumbria Police was almost instantaneous. First report from a victim over Christmas 2013, victim interviewed by Police in early January, Operation Sanctuary launched before the end of the month.

Extract from that long post (the earlier part covers the history of "race riots" in the UK):

Joint Serious Case Review Concerning Sexual Exploitation of Children and Adults with Needs for Care and Support in Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Independent Report Author – David Spicer
Feb 2018
Page 7

". . . over Christmas 2013, a 21-year-old woman who has a learning disability began to speak to her social worker about experiences of sexual exploitation over a long period. With encouragement, support and great courage, in January 2014 she gave a statement to the police in which she detailed her abuse and concerns about other children and young people. She identified places to which she had been taken.

This account and other intelligence suggested the extent of sexual exploitation was greater than previously identified and required a strategic, well-resourced, victim focussed multi-agency response. Proposals were taken to the Northumbria Police Chief Officers’ Team and to senior officers in partner agencies. A police-led multiagency investigation, Operation Sanctuary, was launched in January 2014. Newcastle Safeguarding Children Board and Newcastle Safeguarding Adults Board provided interagency strategic commitment and there was strong political support."
https://newcastle.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Final%20JSCR%20Report%20160218%20PW.PDF

Newcastle also recognised that CSE is but one aspect of sexual exploitation and the longer term strategy is to protect adults (usually young women) as well as children (mostly girls).
https://www.newcastlesafeguarding.org.uk/joint-serious-case-review/

Fear of "race riots" is not a factor in the cover-ups that involve, "a group of white men who all know each other from some sort of club or whatever".

The outcome, that sexual abuse and exploitation of children is covered up, might be the same but the strategies and tactics to empower and encourage the authorities to expose and deter cover-ups will be different.

IMHO one of the big dangers of the "white men do it too" response to the "Grooming Gangs" phenomenon is that it distracts attention from the victims: all the victims, including the girls and young women within a community who are also raped, tortured and trafficked by the same gangs.

We have got to get over this particular "sensitivity to race" that results in children and women being harmed. We manage it with other populations. If the National Crime Agency tackles the Mafia no one says, "What about the Russian Mafia or the Triads? Aren't they just as bad?" or "Not all Italians!" or Not all Catholics!".

----

That last paragraph also addresses HildegardP's point:

The most effective organised crime structures are those rooted in clan & family networks. If bien pensants in the UK can grasp that about the 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, Brise de Mer, Los Zitas, & so on, why do they insist on feigning incomprehension when faced with the same thing but with a little more melanin?

IMHO, and I have thought this for a while, the reason for this is that "Grooming Gangs" have not named themselves as distinct organised crime structures. We have to resort to descriptive labels and they never quite hit the mark in the way that Mafia, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, Brise de Mer, Los Zitas, etc, do.

Julie is right although it's a pity she showed up on this point a little late (and fails to address sexual harassment within her own circle). I'm wary that much is profile boosting as egos have grown with followers but at least she's said it and seems to be catching up.

Meanwhile, Jane, who often points out that she's definitely not a right wing fascist like all the other nasty GCs, has managed to amplify an actual fascist to her sixty thousand followers.

I don’t think it’s been mentioned already ( apologies if I missed it…) but JB apologised for saying JCJ had called one of the victims racist. Will try to paste below:

Julie Bindel

@bindelj
·
Feb 19

“I apologise, unreservedly, for confusing you with someone else. You did not call the survivor a racist. I now realise it was the hard-leftist (claims to be a feminist) that calls all of us racist (including me for writing about grooming gangs), not you. Sorry Jane, truly. All else stands.”

I figured JB’s apology / partial retraction should be in same thread as original msg.

So much now is indeed inviting people to ignore the evidence of their own eyes. And we all know that doesn't end well.

I don't get this either. In the vast majority of organised crime, the organisation is heavily race/ethnicty based. Be it drugs, stolen goods, human trafficking, wtc.

This is well known and maybe this is a shock to people, but the police know this and it's important to being able to police these groups effectively. There are white gangs, Russian, Japanese, Chinese, Albanian, Pakistani, Italian, Native American, Jamaican gangs and more.

There are popular films based on this subject, it's is so strange that people seem to struggle with it.

Yes, I think your first point here is something I see again and again, not just in relation to grooming gangs.

Someone seen as on the right says something, some left activists might allow that the thing in itself is true, but they assume that person is saying it not because it is true, but because they are rasists.

They never seem to think that they might actually think that thing is a problem for the exact same reason as people on the left.

Another example, people on the right are against males accessing women's spaces because they don't want to lose control of their women or want to enforce very regressive gender norms. (Even if they are themselves working powerful women, apparently...)

For some reason it's impossible that they might just think women should have safety and dignity and privacy.

This leads to a lot of bad thinking but also idiotic and unnecessary arguments, and an inability to actually be effective in politics in instances where there is wide substantial agreement across political boundaries.

The most effective organised crime structures are those rooted in clan & family networks. If bien pensants in the UK can grasp that about the 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, Brise de Mer, Los Zitas, & so on, why do they insist on feigning incomprehension when faced with the same thing but with a little more melanin?

I think so too. Excellent posts here.

I'm not particularly concerned about the in-fighting. Without Stasi-esque control and punishment of anyone who dares goes off message, some people will disagree loudly and in public. It's fine.

But it's very disappointing of JCJ. I agree with her, that the average UK police constable/sergeant isn't particularly 'woke'. Most will be annoyed by preferred pronouns etc. and strongly disapprove of a policy where searches on trans women are carried out by female officers. A minority will be regrettably captured and behave twattishly accordingly, but these are vastly outnumbered by the indifferent/active eye rollers to the latest DEI initiative announced by a dutiful Chief Superintendent.

But at higher police ranks, there IS great emphasis placed on 'Diversity & Inclusion'. There are expectations as to what must be said in public and to junior officers, and what can never be uttered. To become an inspector or higher there is a script here which must be followed exactly.

And even at the lowest ranks there's a powerful desire to do what makes their life/job easiest. Policing areas with high Muslim populations is a challenge. Cousin marriages mean these are typically very clannish and no-one talks to the police. Some suspects or potential witnesses will not (or claim not) to speak good English and require an expensive interpreter.

There will be a small number of Muslim community 'leaders', always men, who may agree to talk with the local police. But it's usually very much on their terms. Their information is unreliable/biased and they will expect to get something in return for their cooperation. Not ideal, but for the police it's better than nothing at all.

And the Police are very aware of the nightmare that racial tensions can cause. In 2022, there were terrible clashes between Hindus and Muslims in Leicester that started because of a cricket match. It's that fragile.

So when desperately worried parents/teachers/social workers reported their fears or even the actual behaviours of the Muslim grooming/rape gangs, the Police did not want to hear it. They firmly closed their ears, eyes and mouths.

Investigating these child rape & torture gangs would require massive amounts of very difficult and very expensive police work. And their bosses would hate it. Nothing good would come of this for the rank and file police officers.

They were fearful of dealing with this issue primarily BECAUSE the child rapists were British Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslim rather than British White. White child gang rapists would be much easier to investigate. Some people within families/community will likely co-operate/give evidence, no interpreters needed, and rioting is very unlikely. And their promotion prospects will not be damaged, may even improve.

So the rapists & torturers of thousands of mainly young white girls were given a free pass because the child rapists were British Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslim and not white.

Which is all very much racist, so JCJ is horribly, stupidly and cruelly wrong on this.

JB is right.

Thanks for posting that, catspj.

But damn - I always have to make a conscious effort to remember that "it's BINDEL. Not the other one! BINDEL!"

JCJ demonstrates JB theory.

JCJ own prejudices allow her to assume that any right winger talking about the grooming gangs is motivated by racism, not disgust. It means that every time the gangs are talked about she switches it to talking about racism against these communities, and not the rapes.

I believe her when she says she's horrified, and want the perpetrators in prison, but she trying to stop people to talk about it freely. This attitude means that people are unaware of the extent of the crimes, the crime rings and the clanish attitudes and just how many people allow this to happen.

People are disgusted at the crime, and want the authories to put a stop to it. Putting the perpetrator in prison isnt enough to stop this. The attitudes and the crime rings still exist

Its as if JCJ thinks that recognising this is racist rather than an attempt to stop the crimes.

Too many ; sorry, still blurry eyed!

@ POWeast (can’t remember full mn name) has made good points about this before; hope she swings by to elaborate; there haven’t been race riots in the NE and prosecutions for local grooming gangs has been quicker and more effective .

NB: I don't know either of their positions well. I'm getting my info solely from X. I don't read X often so I've missed most of the controversy.

Jane posted that
"Fear of being labelled racist was one factor. The other major factor that is being consistenly erased in the way then populist right are weaponsing this story, is that the justice services deal terribly with sexual violence in general, because our society doesn't gaf about it."

https://x.com/grace_hawthorn/status/2024485445803909282

https://nitter.net/grace_hawthorn/status/2024485445803909282

Julie posted that
"The police are not scared of being called racist, contrary to popular belief, but they ARE scared of having to deal with what they would refer to as "race riots", and any fallout that targeting particular sections of hardline Islamist populations provokes. This is because these men are scary, and the police don’t give a damn, in the main, about the victims."

I can see some disagreement here but it seems to me that both broadly agree that (1) in general, the police, social services, etc don't GAF about the girls who were abused, whether the perps were Pakistani or British and (2) right wing political parties are using the scandal to stir up racism. The main disagreement seems to be

"Leftists capitulate so hard to these extremists ("because Imperialism, my enemy's enemy", yada, yada) that the default position has been to ignore the evidence and defend the indefensible." - Julie

Is that a fair summary?

Just to be clear, I think it was vile if Jane accused one of the grooming gang survivors of being a racist, as Julie said. But I also agree with Jane that it's despicable and counterproductive to call those who enabled the abuse or looked the other way "evil cockroaches", as Rupert Lowe tweeted.

Totally agree with Bindel.

JCJ is so obsessed with being seen not to be racist that she's lost the plot and now says things that are clearly untrue.

This is so brilliantly put. Nailed it.

Well said, Julie.