Webberly reports Cass to the GMC - get popcorn

If that's your limited response to being called out for discussing adults when the focus is children, you're unlikely to be a parent, have zero experience with children (apart from having been one) and are totally unaware of what safeguarding looks like.

The normal minimum age for puberty to start is 8 for girls and 9 for boys ( I said this in an earlier post). So it would be a maximum of 2 years for a girl and 3 for a boy. I think in practice they try to minimise exposure to the drugs so they might consider a slightly early puberty is better than taking the drugs for longer.

I never specifically said that, I was generalising about gender affirming care. Where I am talking about PBs specifically, I mention them

That isn't what I said. Read again what I wrote which was "most children seem to grow out of it, go on to be 'just' gay and/or have other comorbidities such as mental health problems/neurodivergence/other reasons to try and identify out of their biological sex/gender stereotypes,"

There are plenty of resources out there, I'd start with the Hannah Barnes book. Or the Cass Review. You could also look at the resources available from The Bayswater Group or Transgender Trend.

so because we have gender stereotypes we should allow children to become lifelong medical patients so they can lean into the stereotypes of their desired gender?
(statistics show that children who start puberty blockers are likely to continue on to cross sex hormones, setting themselves up to become lifelong medical patients)

I also never said anything in my statement about adults specifically, I said 'people'

Pot, kettle and black come to mind here

I agree we need to remove gender stereotypes, but until that day, they are there and they affect everyone. Also, I think you misinterpret that PBs are used as a way for children to medically comply with them. It is called care for a reason

And here's the swerve from discussing children to adult demands. It happens every time and demonstrates how transactivists repeatedly use children to achieve their own niche demands.

Pretending children are mini adults is bloody dangerous and it needs to stop.

Medication for precocious puberty is not "gender affirming care" FFS.

Your mental exercise does not pose a similar way of thinking at all and shows a complete lack of empathy for all sides of both

What I am also saying though is that if someone feels they do not align to the sex assigned at birth or their gender identity is different to the stereotypical societal norms they should be afforded the same care as those who have affirming care in the same gender they were born with or identify with.

Sex is not 'assigned' at birth, it is observed.

And anyone who feels they don't match stereotypical gender norms needs to be helped to understand that they don't need to. We need to remove the gender stereotypes not medicate kids into compliance with them.

Sideways, where is the data that most grow out of it?

If a person begins puberty at the age of 12 then a 6 year old will be on PBs for 6 years

You are assuming that 'gender dysphoria' is as serious a condition as precocious puberty. Given that most children seem to grow out of it, go on to be 'just' gay and/or have other comorbidities such as mental health problems/neurodivergence/other reasons to try and identify out of their biological sex/gender stereotypes, I think most people would say that giving drugs with the potential for very serious side effects to children displaying signs of 'gender dysphoria' is wildly disproportionate to the point of medical malpractice.

This isn't about speaking to willing or unwilling people; it's about the clinical evidence base for the use of GnRH analogues which are serious drugs with serious side effects.

Gender-confused children deserve evidence-based healthcare and best clinical practice; the Cass report showed that this branch of medicine is shockingly poor in this regard.

Webberley was a GP, not a paediatrician or endicrinologist, so she was entering charlatan territory by monetising an area in which she has no specialist background.

Please do research. The women on this board are unbelievably well-informed and in many cases well-educated about this issue. They are not speaking out of their metaphorical bums - they speak from a place of knowledge.

As to the question “why is it ok to give puberty blockers to cis children but not trans-identifying children?” perhaps you could do the following mental exercise: ask yourself, why is it ok to give weight-loss drugs to overweight adults, but not to teenagers with anorexia? They are the same drug, both groups want them, why would you gatekeep with one group and not another?

I never said that anyone is telling children they have to change sex or that they're born in the wrong body, and also, bravo for being gender non-conforming, I'm so glad you've been able to present as your true self. I am also not forcing anyone to conform to a specific gender and I'm happy to let people live as they wish.

What I am also saying though is that if someone feels they do not align to the sex assigned at birth or their gender identity is different to the stereotypical societal norms they should be afforded the same care as those who have affirming care in the same gender they were born with or identify with.

Every case of gender affirming care is different from those who have procedures done to enhance their current gender to those that have procedures to alter or change their gender (and all forms of care in between including psychological care).

If you're against gender affirming care for trans people, then you should be against it for cis people.

No. A 6-8 year old going through precocious puberty will be put on PBs for 1-3 years not six years.

If a child is distressed about their gender, then they should receive counselling. Part of which should ensure that they are not distressed because they mistakenly believe that stereotypes are relevant to a person's sex.

What they should not be led to believe is that a lifetime of drugs will assist them in any way.

I don't think every child that goes through precocious puberty is Cis

What has being 'cis' or 'trans' got to do with precocious puberty? It's something that happens to some children and has got nothing to do with gender identity.

Why do you think there is a medical need for these drugs for a child with gender dysphoria? What is the desired outcome?

I have not, but will research into it and have a read, I'm open to discussion. So far what I'm seeing though is that same old story of, "we tried speaking with trans people but got closed down or no one wanted to speak with us, but the other side were more than willing to speak". Sometimes, on both sides of the argument, there seems to be a direct opposition to the other side's views and I feel this is something we should get better at.

I'm waiting too, there are so many things I'd like Tired to clarify - I think we're going to need more🍿

define “gender affirming care” and explain why a child might need it.
I’ll wait.