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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So Doctor “ Beth “ Upton is off to pastures new , leaving a large ongoing bill for NHS Fife

239 replies

RhannionKPSS · 15/02/2026 10:30

Dr Upton is off to Australia it seems, after creating a toxic situation for women in NHS Fife, wonder if Dr Upton is going to be working in “ Gender Services “ down under ?

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AnSolas · 18/02/2026 09:33

PithyViewer · 18/02/2026 08:59

OK, but would any hospital actually provide that guarantee? I really don't think there are enough female hospital doctors for that.

It's different when it's a GP, since there are more female GPs and you are usually scheduling in advance.

But even at the GP level, it's hard to imagine turning down a medical appointment with the likes of Upton if, say, you have a bad throat infection and probably need antibiotics, but Upton is the only doctor available for the next week.

You appear to be missing the point.

He said he would assault a woman who asked for same sex health care.

He said he would expect another member of staff to bring him to the woman requesting SSHC so that he could assault the woman.

No hospital or GP should allow a male member of staff to be unsupervised or in a position of any authority when he openly stated he would engage in a criminal act.

The whole reason there are Medical Regulators is to have ethical medics.

Then obligation on the Employer is to only employ staff who are trustworthy that the obligation to safeguard always remains with the NHS. The Employer (management) are the one placing a woman at risk of assault. The employment contract will not cover assault. Other staff are obliged to raise concerns both from a professional standard pov and a contract expectation.

No hospital staff should be allowed lie when it comes to consent because the obligation is to obtain informed consent.

As before there is a massive difference between
• saying you will get the next doctor of either sex or
• being told there is only a male doctor and
• providing a male doctor while claiming he is a woman/female.

PithyViewer · 18/02/2026 08:59

AnSolas · 18/02/2026 08:32

There is a massive difference between getting the next doctor (etc) on call /on the rota and having an agreement in place that the doctor provide will be a woman when the hospital know they will allow a man who claims to be a woman access to a womans body and thereafter lie and claim he is a woman.

That man has engaged in (medical) assault as he and the hospital know there is no permission.

OK, but would any hospital actually provide that guarantee? I really don't think there are enough female hospital doctors for that.

It's different when it's a GP, since there are more female GPs and you are usually scheduling in advance.

But even at the GP level, it's hard to imagine turning down a medical appointment with the likes of Upton if, say, you have a bad throat infection and probably need antibiotics, but Upton is the only doctor available for the next week.

AnSolas · 18/02/2026 08:32

PithyViewer · 18/02/2026 00:03

But for surgery (you mentioned being unconscious) you mostly can't pick an all-female team anyway. There simply aren't enough female surgeons. And even if you can pick a female surgeon, there's no guarantee that the anaesthetist and the theatre nurses and the person wheeling you back while unconscious are all going to be female. I've had surgery once, and I knew all this, and I hated it. The person wheeling me down in my bed was male, and it was just me and him going down what seemed like miles of corridors. God only knows who brought me back or what they could have done to me on that journey. But that's the nature of surgery, unfortunately. If you need it, there will almost always be males there while you're unconscious and undressed. Therefore, whether they call themselves male or female doesn't make much difference imo, since you can't usually choose an all-female surgical team.

There is a massive difference between getting the next doctor (etc) on call /on the rota and having an agreement in place that the doctor provide will be a woman when the hospital know they will allow a man who claims to be a woman access to a womans body and thereafter lie and claim he is a woman.

That man has engaged in (medical) assault as he and the hospital know there is no permission.

LoudBlueSeal · 18/02/2026 01:35

I have lived in the USA, UK, Ireland and Australia, and the number of women in medicine in Australia is really noticeable. There are lots of them!

In Australia, the majority of doctors in these specialities are women:

  • General Practice (GP)
  • Endocrinology
  • Geriatric Medicine
  • Paediatrics & Child Health
  • Pathology
  • Obstetrics and Gynaecology (85% of new trainees in RANZCOG reported as female)
  • Dermatology

In Australia, a female patient has the right to request a 'female doctor' for cultural, religious, or personal reasons.

There, lawfully, Upton would be a 'woman doctor', but the wording specifically says 'female'. I doubt that's a coincidence.

I'd say Dr Upton would be rarely be called upon to examine a woman who requested a 'female' doctor, should the move to Australia occur, given the number of female women doctors and the wording of the patient's rights.

Also the Women's hospital in Melbourne was one of the first hospitals in the world to be entirely staffed by women doctors and surgeons, and that was in the late 19th century, so the idea of women (or girls) having access to a female doctor is very firmly entrenched.

(Stats via google AI, patient's rights via Royal Women's hospital).

PithyViewer · 18/02/2026 00:03

RareGoalsVerge · 17/02/2026 08:42

Which means that no female patient, who for any reason needs same-sex care, in a hospital where Beth Upton works, can trust that if they consent to a general anaesthetic, their wishes will be respected while they are unconscious - hence this is relevant to @user2848502016 feeling sorry for the women of Australia if these reports are true, which @PithyViewer questioned on the grounds that Beth has not mistreated any female patient. I think overruling any woman's consent for anything to be done or not done to her body by a male because the male's desires are more important is distinctly problematic and is mistreatment.

Edited

But for surgery (you mentioned being unconscious) you mostly can't pick an all-female team anyway. There simply aren't enough female surgeons. And even if you can pick a female surgeon, there's no guarantee that the anaesthetist and the theatre nurses and the person wheeling you back while unconscious are all going to be female. I've had surgery once, and I knew all this, and I hated it. The person wheeling me down in my bed was male, and it was just me and him going down what seemed like miles of corridors. God only knows who brought me back or what they could have done to me on that journey. But that's the nature of surgery, unfortunately. If you need it, there will almost always be males there while you're unconscious and undressed. Therefore, whether they call themselves male or female doesn't make much difference imo, since you can't usually choose an all-female surgical team.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 17/02/2026 19:31

And they would both be mortally offended buy the comparison, I suspect.

HildegardP · 17/02/2026 19:19

nicepotoftea · 17/02/2026 19:10

"On Norms of Assertion; Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About" & yes, gentle reader, an actual god damn university awarded him a doctorate for that & an actual god damn publisher gave him a book deal for it.

He asserts that lying is fine if you have what he considers good reasons for it eg; his "I am a biological woman" piffle, & if the context is apt. Reese is yet to encounter a context he considers inapt for such lies.

Just sounds like Trump to me.

You couldn't get a fag paper between them

nicepotoftea · 17/02/2026 19:10

HildegardP · 17/02/2026 18:14

AFAICT the original source for that hilariously weak sauce replacement for an argument is Julia Serano, he's the first I can find trotting it out. Reese (Ivy/McKinnon/Whatever It Is This Week) inevitably latched onto it because it fits so well with his PhD, "On Norms of Assertion; Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About" & yes, gentle reader, an actual god damn university awarded him a doctorate for that & an actual god damn publisher gave him a book deal for it.

He asserts that lying is fine if you have what he considers good reasons for it eg; his "I am a biological woman" piffle, & if the context is apt. Reese is yet to encounter a context he considers inapt for such lies.

I have huge respect for the principle of the Academy but it's very hard to maintain when dross like that leads to what should be a meaningful credential.

"On Norms of Assertion; Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About" & yes, gentle reader, an actual god damn university awarded him a doctorate for that & an actual god damn publisher gave him a book deal for it.

He asserts that lying is fine if you have what he considers good reasons for it eg; his "I am a biological woman" piffle, & if the context is apt. Reese is yet to encounter a context he considers inapt for such lies.

Just sounds like Trump to me.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 17/02/2026 18:50

The annoying thing about that is that there may be a valid argument for lying being forgivable/permissible in some circumstances, and there is a philosophical debate to be had about what those circumstances may be and what the lies may be and who should or should not tell them – for instance, was it ok for a midwife, rather than telling a woman who had just given birth that what she had given birth to was hopelessly not-really-baby-shaped and inside-out in places and said midwife hadn't made enormous efforts to keep it alive in the face of all odds, simply to say that she is very sorry and the baby was born dead? Can such lies be justified and how can they be justified: does the end justify the means is a debate that has been around for several centuries.

But self-justification about it being ok to tell a lie entirely for your own benefit really adds nothing to that debate.

HildegardP · 17/02/2026 18:14

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 16/02/2026 20:05

And by the way Dr Upton isn't the first man to argue he's "biologically" female - cyclist Rachel (not his birth name) McKinnon / Veronica Ivy and India Willoughby both used the same (non) argument. I couldn't find sources earlier today but they are in Mr Menno's Somatically Female mashup:

Any excuse to enjoy a bit of Mr Menno!

AFAICT the original source for that hilariously weak sauce replacement for an argument is Julia Serano, he's the first I can find trotting it out. Reese (Ivy/McKinnon/Whatever It Is This Week) inevitably latched onto it because it fits so well with his PhD, "On Norms of Assertion; Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About" & yes, gentle reader, an actual god damn university awarded him a doctorate for that & an actual god damn publisher gave him a book deal for it.

He asserts that lying is fine if you have what he considers good reasons for it eg; his "I am a biological woman" piffle, & if the context is apt. Reese is yet to encounter a context he considers inapt for such lies.

I have huge respect for the principle of the Academy but it's very hard to maintain when dross like that leads to what should be a meaningful credential.

HildegardP · 17/02/2026 17:58

TimeForATerf · 17/02/2026 08:11

Wherever Theo ends up, IMO his career, at least as a clinical doctor, is finished. Not only does he not have the mental capacity to cope but it will take two minutes to know who he is when his application lands. Unless of course he changes his name to something else...

His career was over when he walked into that tribunal and opened his mouth.

"Trans identity" is still magical armour in Australia, he'll experience the deference he imagines is his due & his employers will scurry to shield him from his own inadequacies. Meanwhile, he'll get better pay & a better work/ life balance than he could hope for in the NHS.
I wonder if he's noticed the gentle fraying of confidence in gender clinicians down under?

SadSadTimes · 17/02/2026 16:44

So Doctor “ Beth “ Upton is off to pastures new

Sad Times.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 17/02/2026 15:58

KilkennyCats · 16/02/2026 16:30

Ok 🤷🏻‍♀️
I wouldn’t stay, and wouldn’t be swayed by anyone interested in vilifying me, whoever they may be.

Most women say they'd leave immediately. Most don't. What you think you'd do often doesn't happen in reality.

Let's keep the focus on Theodore.

ElenOfTheWays · 17/02/2026 15:00

TinselAngel · 17/02/2026 10:01

In your spare time, when you’re not posting on mumsnet, do you go around knocking on the door of Freedom Programme meetings shouting “I’D HAVE LEFT HIM YOU KNOW”?

Well quite. I actually did leave my abuser fairly early on, but it wasn't easy, it still took me longer than it should have and, ultimately, I didn't do it for myself but for my DD. I had external support too. From what I understand, many (most?) Trans Widows don't have that. Quite the opposite in fact. Its very easy to say "I wouldn't put up with it" from a position of security but actually, you never know what you'll do until you're in that situation. It's like those dumb women who say "I'd kick him in the nuts" of a potential assaulter. Wanna bet?
Its victim blaming and it sucks!

TinselAngel · 17/02/2026 10:01

KilkennyCats · 16/02/2026 16:30

Ok 🤷🏻‍♀️
I wouldn’t stay, and wouldn’t be swayed by anyone interested in vilifying me, whoever they may be.

In your spare time, when you’re not posting on mumsnet, do you go around knocking on the door of Freedom Programme meetings shouting “I’D HAVE LEFT HIM YOU KNOW”?

RareGoalsVerge · 17/02/2026 08:42

Mylovelygreendress · 17/02/2026 08:31

Having seen Theo Upton in person ( I happened to be in Dundee during the Tribunal) I can assure you that no one sane would mistake him for a woman !

Which means that no female patient, who for any reason needs same-sex care, in a hospital where Beth Upton works, can trust that if they consent to a general anaesthetic, their wishes will be respected while they are unconscious - hence this is relevant to @user2848502016 feeling sorry for the women of Australia if these reports are true, which @PithyViewer questioned on the grounds that Beth has not mistreated any female patient. I think overruling any woman's consent for anything to be done or not done to her body by a male because the male's desires are more important is distinctly problematic and is mistreatment.

AnSolas · 17/02/2026 08:41

TimeForATerf · 17/02/2026 08:11

Wherever Theo ends up, IMO his career, at least as a clinical doctor, is finished. Not only does he not have the mental capacity to cope but it will take two minutes to know who he is when his application lands. Unless of course he changes his name to something else...

His career was over when he walked into that tribunal and opened his mouth.

I would not bet on his medical career being over as there are clearly true believers in medicine.
The only saving grace will be that most doctors are very very aware that shit will be bulldozed down over them in an adverse incident. Having a doctor with his history leaves them with someone who is not credible and has been proven to give unreliable evidence to a Court.

Swapping over to his wifes name etc would disguise his past.

Mylovelygreendress · 17/02/2026 08:31

RareGoalsVerge · 17/02/2026 08:24

Beth Upton has said on the record that he would ignore patient consent and lie to a patient about what was going to be happening if a female patient requested to be treated by female staff (which can often be a legitimate need particularly for survivors of Sexual Abuse) because Beth Upton's desire to be perceived as a woman is more important than actual patient wellbeing, consent or dignity

Having seen Theo Upton in person ( I happened to be in Dundee during the Tribunal) I can assure you that no one sane would mistake him for a woman !

RareGoalsVerge · 17/02/2026 08:24

PithyViewer · 15/02/2026 11:22

Why do you feel sorry for the Australian women patients? Her medical skills aren't in question and there is no evidence or suggestion that she has ever mistreated any female patient. If you had a collapse and she was the only doctor in sight (like on a plane) I bet you'd be quite happy to put your prejudices aside and have her treat you!

Beth Upton has said on the record that he would ignore patient consent and lie to a patient about what was going to be happening if a female patient requested to be treated by female staff (which can often be a legitimate need particularly for survivors of Sexual Abuse) because Beth Upton's desire to be perceived as a woman is more important than actual patient wellbeing, consent or dignity

TimeForATerf · 17/02/2026 08:11

Wherever Theo ends up, IMO his career, at least as a clinical doctor, is finished. Not only does he not have the mental capacity to cope but it will take two minutes to know who he is when his application lands. Unless of course he changes his name to something else...

His career was over when he walked into that tribunal and opened his mouth.

ElenOfTheWays · 17/02/2026 05:51

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 16/02/2026 19:34

To be fair, I have no idea whether his medical skills are up to scratch or not. What I find dubious are his ethical standards.

I wouldn't expect much of his competency tbh. If he were a talented physician he probably wouldn't have felt the need to make himself a "special identity" to no doubt cover his flaws.
And his compassion levels appear to be nil. So hardly a healing presence.

HildegardP · 16/02/2026 22:57

Rainingrain · 16/02/2026 21:11

Some European universities teach in English

Learning medicine in English is not the same as learning to communicate effectively with patients in English, especially patients with regional accents. I know lecturers who teach dentistry who say they despair of the level of English of many of their students. Overseas testing of English to gain access to university courses in the UK are known to be riddled with fraud and cheating.

Also someone who speaks a creole, pidgin or diaspora language variations of English might well be able to pass an English language test but be incredibly difficult to understand by people in the UK.

I was referring to UK students who choose to take their medical degrees abroad. I'm all-too familiar with the language competency problems in UK universities & in my own life despair of being sent to clinicians whose English is barely B1, never mind the C2 level at which they should be functioning.

Rainingrain · 16/02/2026 21:11

Some European universities teach in English

Learning medicine in English is not the same as learning to communicate effectively with patients in English, especially patients with regional accents. I know lecturers who teach dentistry who say they despair of the level of English of many of their students. Overseas testing of English to gain access to university courses in the UK are known to be riddled with fraud and cheating.

Also someone who speaks a creole, pidgin or diaspora language variations of English might well be able to pass an English language test but be incredibly difficult to understand by people in the UK.

HildegardP · 16/02/2026 20:57

Rainingrain · 16/02/2026 09:13

Most who go abroad do so because they can’t get places here. They do count as international medical graduates and I am sceptical about courses where people can pass their medical degree without having sufficient local language to engage properly with patients. How can that be patient centred care? However, if they are British citizens they have a right to work here as long as they can pass PLAB.

Some European universities teach in English anyway & medical degree courses are taught in English in Germany, Poland, Romania, Italy & the Czech Republic, to name a few. A good standard of English was generally expected of medical students because the bulk of the big medical journals published in English & the major medical conferences were English-medium. We native English speakers by contrast, were noted for our perplexing monoglottism.

I know that you can get bumped off English-medium medical courses in Italy if your standard of Italian (classes are provided within the medical school) isn't of a sufficient standard by year 3 when patient contact begins, presumably the same applies elsewhere - think of the insurance! 2 years is plenty to go from Beginners to degree-level in a Romance language, Polish might be more sticky, a bit of pre-application prep would be advisable.

Rainingrain · 16/02/2026 20:42

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 16/02/2026 19:34

To be fair, I have no idea whether his medical skills are up to scratch or not. What I find dubious are his ethical standards.

His medical skills must be woeful if he thinks people can change sex and he is biologically female.