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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC interview with Cass. 'Both sides weaponised'

257 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2026 06:27

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0k1vkmxgd6o

Asked if children had been let down by an adult-led debate, Cass said "absolutely", adding they "were also caught up in all the issues about single-sex spaces and sports and safe areas for women which were actually not to do with the children but they were somehow part of a football within it".

This woman is proving herself exceedingly stupid and self serving.

Children were caught up in a debate about single sex spaces and sports which aren't about children?!!!

Wtf?

So let me get this straight. Young girls and teenage girls don't need and use single sex facilities. And issues with sports also don't impact on teenage girls.

Is that what she's saying????!!!!

Fuck off. And keeping fucking off some more.

This woman is proving herself to be an idiot and is trying to desperately make herself look better in the eyes of activists. She doesn't give a fuck about children. She's playing politics here for her own sake.

The issues around kids and single sex facilities are some of the most compelling!

I'm just staggered by this shit show.

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 16/02/2026 09:10

. I personally think that it’s not much different from the things that cause anorexia or other body dysmorphic disorders, that we also don’t understand well, but you are right,
We do know that anorexia isn't something that is free from comorbidity though. Indeed we are seeing it absolutely is about other issues but this isn't well recognised.

Suggesting that it's like anorexia because there may be no underlying issue is ignorant of what we do know of anorexia.

It would be worthwhile exploring before making the comparison.

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 16/02/2026 09:04

@Brainworm

I am not wholesale against trialling PBs. I think, through rigorous inclusion and exclusion criteria, an ethical study could be conducted.

But what do you think is being trialled? What hypothesis would be being tested by stopping the puberty of gender distressed children? That it will make them “feel better”? But how? What mechanisms are being changed that we might predict would have the “right” effect? What is the “right” effect anyway?

It is especially important that one be able
to answer those questions given that currently there is no way other than letting them grow up with no intervention to identify the 2% of gender distressed children who might possibly persist in their distress into adulthood.

(I will concede that you agree with Cass that maybe we haven’t yet identified the underlying thing that causes true persistent gender distress. I personally think that it’s not much different from the things that cause anorexia or other body dysmorphic disorders, that we also don’t understand well, but you are right, we don’t know. All the more reason to play this ball unbelievably cautiously, in my mind…)

Greyskybluesky · 16/02/2026 09:01

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 08:39

Listen, if JK Rowling, Helen Joyce, Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Matt Walsh Ben Shapiro, Abigail Shrier, Leo Sapir, Colin Wright, Bari Weiss etc etc were anti Gaza genocide you would know about it.

The fact is nary a whisper for that or any other serious child welfare scandal other than perhaps an islamophobic one off like Rotherham.

These people don't have any form on child protection other than one that happens to coincide with their pet peeve. Trans bigotry.

Loath as I am to feed this poster, may I point out that it really is extremely limited thinking to believe that just because someone has a platform, they have to use it to proclaim their thoughts on every major issue in the world.

Also, "Emily", you demonstrate your own prejudice by calling the grooming gangs scandal "an islamophobic one off".

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2026 09:00

Cass suggests that there could be a very small number of children for whom there are no obvious or yet discovered underlying causes. These children have not got neurodevelopmental conditions, histories of abuse/ trauma/ mental illness, they aren’t gay etc. yet they struggle with their sexed bodies. If this is the case, and there is a very rare condition leading to this, and if puberty blockers were trialled, one would imagine we are talking fewer than 20 kids per year, and that other treatments should be explored or developed because the costs of PB and cross sex hormones are high

What was the issue with the Tavistock?

They couldn't find any kids who didn't have significant complex needs. Indeed quite the opposite. It's a massive problem to ignore the experience of a previous trial when proposing another.

It's like proposing a drug for baby unicorns and then giving it to baby horses because one might become a baby unicorn.

There's simply no evidence of these mythical children who have gender dysphoria and dont have complex needs.

The trial itself only has value if you can find enough baby unicorns rather than baby horses. But the existence of the trial itself necessitates and produces pressure to present 200 potential baby unicorns in the hope we might find one.

It's absurd. The whistleblowers at the Tavistock spoke about this pressure and disregard for the complex issues and how they were told to ignore these concerns because it was more important to give the kids and parents what they demanded in spite of that.

This is just more of the same. It's like feeding an addict.

There are no baby unicorns. Just tortured baby horses.

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 16/02/2026 09:00

Weaponised or not, politicised or not, I don't see how this trial meets ethical requirements to go ahead. "It's been politicised by both sides" (or even by one side) is a not an ethical justification in itself.

First of all, it's not ethical to deliberately mess around with children's health for the sake of proving that something is bad for them. You need something that strongly indicates it's likely to be good for most of them before you start a trial on a treatment that you know might also be very bad for some of them.

And second, it's not ethical to run a short-term study on a treatment whose biggest effects are long term. Just two years isn't enough when the main effects happen over 5-20+ years.

If the data linkage study investigating outcomes for the Tavistock patients who already had puberty blockers over the last 20 years)which the Cass review originally recommended had been completed, and had come up come up with "yes, there is an identifiable group of children who did much better on/after puberty blockers" then there would be some justification for starting the prospective trial that the review also proposed. But even so it would need to be longer than 2 years. And until these data linkage studies are complete I just can't see how a prospective trial could ever be ethical.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 16/02/2026 08:49

For someone who is berating us for making such a big deal out of something that is so much less important than anything else in the world, this topic does seem to be taking up an awful lot of our visitor’s head space.

Brainworm · 16/02/2026 08:49

As far as what makes children trans I defer to the experts like Cass…….some maintain a trans identity through out their whole lives

Cass concluded that there are ‘many ways in to a trans identity’, which led her to recommend services that address underlying causes that need addressing (e.g sexual abuse, trauma, mental illness, unmet Austin needs, homophobia). She also recognises that standard gender non conformity and adolescent identity exploration can, because of the zeitgeist, lead to children questioning their gender identity when in another social climate they wouldn’t. Cass has highlighted that, in all of the above cases, support tends to result in desistance.

Clearly, when looking at outcomes for children who have adopted a ‘trans identity’ - whatever that means to them, the best outcome is for them to feel comfortable with their bodies without any physical intervention (hormones, surgery). I expect that better outcomes come from also desisting with their ‘trans identity’ because if they do persist they will have to navigate a world where their internal sense of self doesn’t align with material reality and corresponding laws and social attitudes. It maybe that this misalignment causes less distress than the internal misalignment within their mind, but they should be able to access evidence based treatment for this misalignment - which many want to ban under the guise of conversion therapy.

Cass suggests that there could be a very small number of children for whom there are no obvious or yet discovered underlying causes. These children have not got neurodevelopmental conditions, histories of abuse/ trauma/ mental illness, they aren’t gay etc. yet they struggle with their sexed bodies. If this is the case, and there is a very rare condition leading to this, and if puberty blockers were trialled, one would imagine we are talking fewer than 20 kids per year, and that other treatments should be explored or developed because the costs of PB and cross sex hormones are high. Therefore, you would expect, in addition to a PB trial, money being invested in exploring / developing treatments that enable people with the condition to lead happy lives and retain fertility, sexual function and not be damaged by exogenous hormones that damage organs.

I am not wholesale against trialling PBs. I think, through rigorous inclusion and exclusion criteria, an ethical study could be conducted. However, when arguments for a trial are made without equal support for developing and trialling other treatments that, ideally, could replace PBs and cross sex hormones, I suspect ideology is at play.

TheKeatingFive · 16/02/2026 08:48

borntobequiet · 16/02/2026 08:47

Go on. Explain how girls are hardly most affected by having boys - bigger, stronger, faster - competing against them in sports teams, or by encountering adult men identifying as women in public lavatories and changing rooms? Some of the most high profile sex crimes committed by TIMs against girls have been in such places.
It’s clear you don’t consider girls to be of any importance or worth. I wonder why.

It’s clear you don’t consider girls to be of any importance or worth. I wonder why.

This is always the fundamental point of trans activism. It's a men's rights movement.

Igneococcus · 16/02/2026 08:48

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 08:39

Listen, if JK Rowling, Helen Joyce, Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Matt Walsh Ben Shapiro, Abigail Shrier, Leo Sapir, Colin Wright, Bari Weiss etc etc were anti Gaza genocide you would know about it.

The fact is nary a whisper for that or any other serious child welfare scandal other than perhaps an islamophobic one off like Rotherham.

These people don't have any form on child protection other than one that happens to coincide with their pet peeve. Trans bigotry.

Are you strongly voicing your opposition to the genocide of the Uighurs in China or are you not interested in that one because the Chinese perpetrators aren't Jewish?

borntobequiet · 16/02/2026 08:47

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 00:15

Meh, "think of the children!" has long been used as a tactic used in an attempt to prevent rational debate by misdirecting empathy towards an object which may not have been the focus of the original argument. In terms of sports & toilets they are hardly the one's mostly effected.

Go on. Explain how girls are hardly most affected by having boys - bigger, stronger, faster - competing against them in sports teams, or by encountering adult men identifying as women in public lavatories and changing rooms? Some of the most high profile sex crimes committed by TIMs against girls have been in such places.
It’s clear you don’t consider girls to be of any importance or worth. I wonder why.

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 08:46

OldCrone · 16/02/2026 08:00

Again, you don't seem to understand the substance of the OP's claim where she disputed children being used as a political football

What do you mean by this? You seem to have misunderstood the OP's point.

Oh lord, at the point where the OP explicitly expresses her disbelief of child weaponisation you are clearly being wilfully ignorant.

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 08:44

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2026 08:36

Excuse me?

Substance?

So we should have any 14 year boy or male teacher going into the girls changing room and if the girls don't like changing in front of them it's transphobic? And you think this is a red herring and erroneously dragging children into a debate which some of our own kids are facing and are being distressed by on a daily basis because they can't say anything because otherwise they will be excluded or ostracised?

It's not even simply about trans issues. It's actually about abuse of power, top down dictated and social imbalances in political influence in inappropriate settings which go against lawful policies.

It's about how ideological belief is dominating and over riding reality and scientific knowledge in pursuit of power and how dangerous this is because it can then be used and weaponised by opposing politics in a way that harms every.

If you think it's about 'just wanting to pee' you simply prove your juvenile, shallow, rather ignorant and simplistic world view.

Cass is a massive disappointment because she can't think beyond the end of her nose and admit that kids really are at the pointy end of the debate over single sex spaces because we are literally teaching kids that they have no value and they don't deserve privacy and dignity from the opposite sex in the process.

It's quite the take to say that women talking about reality and issues with authoritarianism is an extremist position in a democracy.

She's really proven her grasp of the impact of this is utterly inadequate and limited.

Again, numbers don't lie. In the whole scheme of child protection the instances justifying this amount of attention isn't anywhere near what it needs to be not to mention the domination of media space by it precludes other real child safety issues seeing the light of day.

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 08:39

Shedmistress · 16/02/2026 07:59

I follow many 'Gender Criticals' on X many of which I disagree with on many other topics and the various genocides are critiqued on an hourly basis.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that is a basic building block of child development, when a child realises putting their hand in front of their eyes doesn't make everyone go away.

Listen, if JK Rowling, Helen Joyce, Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Matt Walsh Ben Shapiro, Abigail Shrier, Leo Sapir, Colin Wright, Bari Weiss etc etc were anti Gaza genocide you would know about it.

The fact is nary a whisper for that or any other serious child welfare scandal other than perhaps an islamophobic one off like Rotherham.

These people don't have any form on child protection other than one that happens to coincide with their pet peeve. Trans bigotry.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2026 08:36

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:53

Again, you don't seem to understand the substance of the OP's claim where she disputed children being used as a political football or other posters agreeing with her but I appreciate why after being caught out that you are doggedly avoiding it under the pretence of having a 'serious discussion'. Lol.

As far as what makes children trans I defer to the experts like Cass not my own opinion who stated they do which I can only surmise is because some maintain a trans identity through out their whole lives.

Excuse me?

Substance?

So we should have any 14 year boy or male teacher going into the girls changing room and if the girls don't like changing in front of them it's transphobic? And you think this is a red herring and erroneously dragging children into a debate which some of our own kids are facing and are being distressed by on a daily basis because they can't say anything because otherwise they will be excluded or ostracised?

It's not even simply about trans issues. It's actually about abuse of power, top down dictated and social imbalances in political influence in inappropriate settings which go against lawful policies.

It's about how ideological belief is dominating and over riding reality and scientific knowledge in pursuit of power and how dangerous this is because it can then be used and weaponised by opposing politics in a way that harms every.

If you think it's about 'just wanting to pee' you simply prove your juvenile, shallow, rather ignorant and simplistic world view.

Cass is a massive disappointment because she can't think beyond the end of her nose and admit that kids really are at the pointy end of the debate over single sex spaces because we are literally teaching kids that they have no value and they don't deserve privacy and dignity from the opposite sex in the process.

It's quite the take to say that women talking about reality and issues with authoritarianism is an extremist position in a democracy.

She's really proven her grasp of the impact of this is utterly inadequate and limited.

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 16/02/2026 08:29

BettyBooper · 15/02/2026 21:09

Exactly.

That PBs were introduced as a 'treatment' in an almost whimsical manner to assess whether it would help men to 'pass' has been buried.

Why would this be remotely beneficial to girls (even if you agree with the first idea, which retains massive ethical issues)?

It's so ridiculously shaky and the risk of harm to all involved is massive.

I’m going to gently sidestep our overnight visitor, and come back to this, because I’ve had some overnight thoughts of my own about the possible hypothesis this study could be testing.

In my post that you replied to, I said that one thing it could be testing is the hypothesis that “stopping puberty in children with gender distress will alleviate their gender distress,” and I said that hypothesis needed unpacking. But I missed one of the most fundamental unpacks:

What does “alleviation of gender distress look like?”

If it looks like some sort of general removal of depression and anxiety, then why would puberty blockers be the drug being tested, when we already have vast reams of research on multiple sorts of anti-depressants? We don’t need a new drug in that particular market, so surely that isn’t what is being tested.

So it must be specifically about gender distress. And there are only two ways (that I can think of) one might think about that being alleviated:

One, “alleviating gender distress” could mean that the child no longer feels uncomfortable in their sexed body, that they no longer feel like they were “born in the wrong body.” That is a plausible definition of “alleviating gender distress” but there’s no plausible reason to expect that to be the outcome of stopping puberty. In fact, given everything we know about how puberty works, that is the opposite of what we might expect to happen. By stopping the child from going through the natural development of the brain (as well as the body) that happens during puberty, you are almost guaranteeing that they will have no “changes of mind,” as it were, about their view of their sexed body.

The alternative is, two: “alleviating gender distress” means “increased happiness simply because stopping puberty in this way is seen by the child as the first step on a path towards medically altering the body to make it fit their mental image of what their body should be.”

Now, if the latter is the case, that is a whole can of worms for the research team, and that the ethics committee should have been aware of. Because if that is the case, then you are not ever going to be able to test the “effectiveness” of just stopping puberty on gender distress - because it is not ever considered a just in the minds of the experimental subjects.

If you cannot say to the subjects “you will be given this drug and nothing more, ever” and have them believe you, then you are not testing just that drug - particularly when you are looking at psychological outcomes - you are testing the effect of knowing that they have (finally!, after begging and begging) taken the first of many steps on a path that they have already decided is the right path for them.

In other words, there is no way to test the effectiveness of stopping puberty on alleviating gender distress in isolation. Again, the whole premise of the study falls down.

I don’t get it. These are supposed to be the best of the best in terms of research. If one of my undergraduates had given me a research proposal with this many unfounded assumptions and untestable hypotheses, I’d have sent them back to start again.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2026 08:23

Oh I have an opinion on Gaza. But you can't have an opinion on Gaza unless it's 'the right one' because of all the utterly dim knobheads who know fuck all about history and politics.

Same knobends who only want to close conversations down about other off limits conversation usually too. They just repeat thought terminating clichés and chant slogan and I honestly question whether they can do research and hold an independent thought or opinion without having it signed off by their cool mates first.

Yet this is where I'd be PREJUDGED. Cos guess what, who is it with all the PREJUDICES? Is it those open and willing to have conversations about anything and to explore the difficult parts of the conversation or is it those who do their best to shut down conversations and insist that every becomes an unthinking robot who says exactly the same as them.

And no I do not support Israel. At all. Nor do I remotely support Reform.

Anyway this thread is about the disappointment of Cass and this country which we are permitted to talk about. We are also permitted to be concerned about the implications to a whole generation in terms of how this ideology ultimately isn't just about those kids on puberty blockers but also about how kids are being forced not to think for themselves and form opinions about the truth and freely express it. The Orwellian issue is very much alive and telling you you must say x, y or z otherwise you aren't a good citizen and you must be re-educated. This is a whole other level of concerning and dangerous which our friends telling us which political beliefs are valid REALLY wouldn't like us to talk about.

Imagine telling the truth about our own sex which none of us can hide or erase no matter how much we try. The horror.

OP posts:
Shedmistress · 16/02/2026 08:02

I must admit, 'we should sterilise some kids because Gaza' is quite the stance to take. But it seems to be prolific amongst the omnicause people.

OldCrone · 16/02/2026 08:00

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:53

Again, you don't seem to understand the substance of the OP's claim where she disputed children being used as a political football or other posters agreeing with her but I appreciate why after being caught out that you are doggedly avoiding it under the pretence of having a 'serious discussion'. Lol.

As far as what makes children trans I defer to the experts like Cass not my own opinion who stated they do which I can only surmise is because some maintain a trans identity through out their whole lives.

Again, you don't seem to understand the substance of the OP's claim where she disputed children being used as a political football

What do you mean by this? You seem to have misunderstood the OP's point.

Shedmistress · 16/02/2026 07:59

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:21

Plz point to all the gender criticals critiquing the genocide then?

Oh wait, there are none.

I follow many 'Gender Criticals' on X many of which I disagree with on many other topics and the various genocides are critiqued on an hourly basis.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that is a basic building block of child development, when a child realises putting their hand in front of their eyes doesn't make everyone go away.

OldCrone · 16/02/2026 07:54

BendoftheBeginning · 16/02/2026 07:42

There’s also nothing in her comments to suggest she thinks “trans people exist,” let alone “trans children.” She’s talking about keeping the option for a very extreme treatment for a tiny minority of very distressed, very mentally ill adults. As ever, avoiding the mental illness at all is the real goal, not celebrating is as a glorious “coming out.”

She supports the proposed experiment on children, and is responsible for recommending this experiment in her report.

Why would she do that if she didn't believe in "trans children"?

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:53

OldCrone · 16/02/2026 07:45

If you'd read the whole thread you'd know that there are many posters on here supporting what Dr Cass said as well as criticism of her. Even those critical of what she said haven't made unsubstantiated attacks, but thoughtful comments explaining why they think she's wrong.

Until you arrived with your posts peppered with "meh" and "lol", this was a serious discussion with thoughtful posts on all sides.

But if you're serious about wanting to join the discussion, could you explain in more detail what you mean by "Trans children/people exist sans delusions or perversions"? What do you mean by "trans children"? What makes a child "trans"?

Again, you don't seem to understand the substance of the OP's claim where she disputed children being used as a political football or other posters agreeing with her but I appreciate why after being caught out that you are doggedly avoiding it under the pretence of having a 'serious discussion'. Lol.

As far as what makes children trans I defer to the experts like Cass not my own opinion who stated they do which I can only surmise is because some maintain a trans identity through out their whole lives.

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:46

BendoftheBeginning · 16/02/2026 07:42

There’s also nothing in her comments to suggest she thinks “trans people exist,” let alone “trans children.” She’s talking about keeping the option for a very extreme treatment for a tiny minority of very distressed, very mentally ill adults. As ever, avoiding the mental illness at all is the real goal, not celebrating is as a glorious “coming out.”

Quote where Cass says trans people are only mentally ill?

OldCrone · 16/02/2026 07:45

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:29

Most of the thread is an attack on Cass for recognising that:

A. Trans children/people exist sans delusions or perversions
B. Children are being exploited to resist this finding.

But yeah, keep up the pretence of understanding something other people don't.

If you'd read the whole thread you'd know that there are many posters on here supporting what Dr Cass said as well as criticism of her. Even those critical of what she said haven't made unsubstantiated attacks, but thoughtful comments explaining why they think she's wrong.

Until you arrived with your posts peppered with "meh" and "lol", this was a serious discussion with thoughtful posts on all sides.

But if you're serious about wanting to join the discussion, could you explain in more detail what you mean by "Trans children/people exist sans delusions or perversions"? What do you mean by "trans children"? What makes a child "trans"?

BendoftheBeginning · 16/02/2026 07:42

There’s also nothing in her comments to suggest she thinks “trans people exist,” let alone “trans children.” She’s talking about keeping the option for a very extreme treatment for a tiny minority of very distressed, very mentally ill adults. As ever, avoiding the mental illness at all is the real goal, not celebrating is as a glorious “coming out.”

EmilyinEverton · 16/02/2026 07:36

OldCrone · 16/02/2026 07:28

We don't discuss everything on every thread. That would be ridiculous.

If you have something relevant to say about the subject of this thread, go ahead. If you want to discuss something else, find an appropriate thread for your comments, or start your own thread.

Cue 'derail' when facts get inconvenient.

Just a friendly reminder that the OP's whole premise was children weren't being used as a political football so I simply gave clarification AND an example of their exploitation.

That you feel this clarification is irrelevant smells strongly like defensiveness.

Swipe left for the next trending thread