Trans patient records medical team during cancer surgery

Everyone = all women.

Everyone should support better menopause health and health care.

And I never said it was. I said it was the body's systems adjusting to a lowering of estrogen levels (amongst other things).

Sure. But I don't believe testosterone dominant women are common, not even with PCOS (I'm not comparing women with PCOS to trans women either)

I've been prescribed estrogen for over 40 years. I'm still waiting for this fabled breakdown and feebleness sex realists keep telling the world trans women suffer. I am healthy with no chronic conditions.

I am so tired of what trans people take being called "HRT". It is not. It is not 'replacing' anything. It is Hormone Addition Therapy.

Indeed. Hormone levels act, or don't, on existing body systems according to the sex of those systems.

A transman on testosterone still has female kidney filtration rates and will need a kidney transplant at female marker levels, not male ones. As at least one transman found out to her cost.

The immune system of a man taking oestrogen doesn't react in the same way as that of a woman. As they discovered when testing Covid treatments. Because women tend to get Covid less severely, there was a theory that oestrogen was a protective factor and they tried giving it as a treatment. It worked for women (both pre- and post- menopausal) but had no effect on men because their immune cells didn’t have the relevant oestrogen receptors.

Testosterone causes vaginal atrophy in women. It doesn't in men. I hope I don't need to explain why not.

Oh yes, that's been going on for a while now. Back in.... early 2023 I think, I was working for the NHS and fighting them to get trans women's health problems taken out of their menopause policy 🙄

Fucking ridiculous.

Endocrine/ mental health problems were already adequately covered by the sickness and gender reassignment policies already. Its muddying the water to say we need a menopause policy to clarify that women might have certain needs - but then say that some men might also have those same needs.

The NHS !!🙄

It is not just about amounts of certain hormones, but about the body's natural predispostion towards them. Female bodies, for example, are not meant to be subjected to such large doses of testosterone. Male level doses actively damage a female body's function and health.Plenty of detransitioners say they were definitely not " fans" of some of these damaging effects on their body.

the thing is, the reports that i see where the most harm is caused is that of transmen not realising, or ignoring the fact, they are pregnant. And dying or coming close to death etc, because of that.

But, and this comes as no surprise to FWR regulars: who cares, right? Transmen are women and women can fend for themselves, they are not the point of all this.

What the hell?! In a middle setting you should want doctors to know your sex so you can get the right treatment. Having an F on your notes is entirely pointless if you're not alive to see it because you got the wrong dose of something, or the wrong medication for your body!

Christ, are they cosplaying menopause now? There aren't enough swear words.

Menopause is not 'testosterone dominance'. Many women are also offered testosterone supplementation at menopause because levels drop.

Testosterone and oestrogen aren't necessarily inversely proportional in a woman's body - both can be lower than normal.

I've not suggested they are. I've said presence or lack of sex hormones affect how body systems operate. I've also said changing sex hormone dominance will cause changes in how body systems operate. Men are not fans of the affects of estrogen dominance in their bodies. Women are not fans of the affects of testosterone dominance in their bodies. Trans people seek and accept the changes.

Once more with feeling:

"Menopausal women are not trans men."

I'm reminded of Helen Joyce being interviewed, describing how she never thought that doing a maths PhD would lead to her having a job where the most complex argument she's most often called on to make is "some things are different from some other things".

“As much as I'll be attacked for even mentioning menopause, it is a prime example of massive changes resulting from lowering the amount of estrogen from one's body.”

No, menopause is not simply ‘a female body lowering the amount of estrogen in the body’. That bodily action can be for other reasons too.

There is huge harm to female people in using the terms meant to describe their body functions and needs inappropriately.

This again has been explained to you numerous times. It is an act of misogyny to redefine a female body function to be meaningless so a male person can use the term to please himself.

“I would think most people could discern between a trans woman and a man taking estrogen for cancer or other condition.”

How?

Please describe exactly how they would discern the difference?

And coming from a family prone to prostate cancer, I understand how that was historically treated. Your attempt to deflect is irrelevant.

Hormone levels impact bodily functions? No shit Sherlock. Artificial exogenous hormones typically found in the opposite sex being taken still does not make any person the opposite sex.

It simply makes that person, a person who takes exogenous hormones.

@sanluca I wasn't discussing hormone levels, I was discussing blood, liver and kidney function tests. My post had nothing to do with my identity. Body systems are affected by the dominance or lack of sex hormones regardless of what gametes a person is supporting or however you term it. Weight, fat and muscle distribution, bone thickness and density, immune systems. Over time systems can change a lot, even for those who start HRT later in life. As much as I'll be attacked for even mentioning menopause, it is a prime example of massive changes resulting from lowering the amount of estrogen from one's body.

@Helleofabore In speaking with a friend about their prostate cancer, he said medicine favours non-estrogen drugs to eliminate testosterone these days. I'm not saying it's never done, but it is less than previously done.

I would think most people could discern between a trans woman and a man taking estrogen for cancer or other condition.

Considering the latest self report on social media about a female person who was taking testosterone who had no idea she was pregnant but felt the urge to push and thought she had just been constipated, I wonder just how anyone is expected to believe taking exogenous hormones ‘changes a person’s sex category ‘.

I also wonder how this take on exogenous hormones works with male people who are treating cancer or other conditions with estrogen? Are we to assume that this is confirmation that they are female upon this change?

I think any person who understands humans can artificially manipulate their body’s hormone levels understands this doesn’t change that person’s sex. It only changes the testable hormone levels in that person’s body. It is and was always flawed logic.

To be fair, when I had my c-section in Canada they didn't have any issue with my partner filming (in the UK he had to leave, but in Canada he was there throughout). So I have a recording of my first child's birth.

The risk in the post of onepostwonder is that even if their hormones were all in the female range and their surgery went well, it is wrong to assume all transwomen are like them. Most transwomen start taking hormones late or never or have a longer surgery that means their bodies does react differently that female bodies.
I don't understand why people like onepostwonder value their identity more than their and other people's lives. How egocentric.

“So in this situation, 'sex' does not appear to be dependent upon gametes.”

Reader’s note/

A human dosing their body using exogenous hormones that their body is not coded to produce, and doesn’t have the body parts to produce naturally in those quantities, will generally be expected to have hormone levels that correspond with those levels.

It still doesn’t make them the sex category that does have the body formed to naturally produce those hormones at those levels. It just makes them a person taking exogenous hormones.

If those exogenous hormones came from a yam as they historically did, did that make the person dosing themselves with the drugs, a yam? Isn’t that the outcome this logic manipulation attempts?

Thank you for making me snort my tea out of my nose.

#sorenosetimes

Red haired people are more resistant to anaesthesia. So it’s not just a question of kg.

Did you so thusly?

Just wondering whether surgeons who were operating on me were moaning about how fat I was and how much more complicated that made things. Luckily I was more concerned with them doing a good job than giving the slightest concern to what they thought of me.

Realistically, human nature means that, when presented with something off-the-wall, unusual or significant, medical staff are going to discuss it when they think the patient can’t hear them.

I don’t remotely buy the suggestion that it was not to miss important points of diagnosis. He knew they would talk and decided to try and catch them out.

The levels of self-obsession are, as I have come to expect of this patient cohort, off the scale. It would have served him right if the hospital had kicked him to the kerb. Clearly they are better people than he is.