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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

741 replies

weegielass · 03/02/2026 10:21

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

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Alpacajigsaw · 05/02/2026 23:32

RhannionKPSS · 05/02/2026 21:26

I totally agree, the GRC is a lie and should never have become law. I hope Sex Matters will consider pushing for abolishment, along with continuing to push back in court.

GRA has to go and the PC of GR with it

Hedgehogforshort · 05/02/2026 22:42

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/02/2026 22:37

by rights FWS should win this, but I just have a horrible feeling there’ll be some technical win for scotgov. Nothing surprises me anymore.

When i saw your user name quoting me i shit myself 😂

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/02/2026 22:37

Hedgehogforshort · 05/02/2026 22:01

Having read everything now (IANAL) i would comment that the Ministers for Scotland argument at best fragmented.

They refer to the fact that the duties under the Euro HRA are devolved to them.

Well yes that principle is true of England and Wales and N ireland too.

But they are arguing x y and Z case law around that fact, but not once mention any NOT ANY, that confers rights for TIM’s to access opposite sex facilities.

their pleadings seem to be we done it cos we don't want to get in trouble in the ECHR your honour, and we have no recourse to get this clarified.

Well it has been clarified by the fucking Supreme Court of the UK, which like it or not they are part of.

And the HRA is hard baked in to the EQA, of the UK which the Scottish ministers must abide by.

The other thing i noted is that the arguments put forward are exactly as RMW and his compadres

I will be AGOG if FWS lose this.

by rights FWS should win this, but I just have a horrible feeling there’ll be some technical win for scotgov. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Hedgehogforshort · 05/02/2026 22:34

CassOle · 05/02/2026 22:19

Archive version. https://archive.ph/pp6X8

Bloody awful is all i can say really.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 05/02/2026 22:33

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OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 05/02/2026 22:31

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CassOle · 05/02/2026 22:19

Archive version. https://archive.ph/pp6X8

CassOle · 05/02/2026 22:07

borntobequiet · 05/02/2026 21:55

Gosh, that testimony. And so direct and honest.

Agreed. I'm so glad this was included in the evidence.

Hedgehogforshort · 05/02/2026 22:01

Having read everything now (IANAL) i would comment that the Ministers for Scotland argument at best fragmented.

They refer to the fact that the duties under the Euro HRA are devolved to them.

Well yes that principle is true of England and Wales and N ireland too.

But they are arguing x y and Z case law around that fact, but not once mention any NOT ANY, that confers rights for TIM’s to access opposite sex facilities.

their pleadings seem to be we done it cos we don't want to get in trouble in the ECHR your honour, and we have no recourse to get this clarified.

Well it has been clarified by the fucking Supreme Court of the UK, which like it or not they are part of.

And the HRA is hard baked in to the EQA, of the UK which the Scottish ministers must abide by.

The other thing i noted is that the arguments put forward are exactly as RMW and his compadres

I will be AGOG if FWS lose this.

GenderlessVoid · 05/02/2026 21:58

Excellent article. It's one of the best I've read at portraying the experience of female prisoners.

The prisoner's testimony is chilling. No wonder the SNP ministers tried to prevent it.

"The witness described a second male prisoner, referred to as MP2, who thrived on “power and control and intimidation”. She said the behaviour reminded her of a past toxic and violent relationship, in which she had been tied to a radiator naked. “A million per cent this was a bloke behaving like a bad bloke,” the woman said. “I felt totally unsafe.”

“I felt I had no privacy from these men. Of course, I felt unsafe. My space was eroded. There was no way I could avoid them. Women have to put up with this. Put up. And say nothing. Och aye, our space was eroded — 100 per cent ....

“I am still disgusted and upset, I felt upset and hopeless. These men should not be with us. Women just have to put up. If we complain, we get punished. The prison don’t care what it’s like to be unsafe and terrified because these men are among you. I can tell you 100 per cent, I am not the only one who feels this way.”

There's more. Poor women. They don't care what happens to the women at all. They're deliberately traumatizing them so the men will be happier. It's haunting.

A former governor of a women’s prison was spot on in her testimony. I hope Lady Ross focuses on this when she makes her decision.

“In my experience … it is simply not possible to negate the risk to women’s mental and/or physical wellbeing that this practice [housing men in women’s jails] poses, and in my view, implementation of this elevates concern for males over the wellbeing of women.”

borntobequiet · 05/02/2026 21:55

Gosh, that testimony. And so direct and honest.

NotAtMyAge · 05/02/2026 21:53

@Igneococcus

Many thanks for posting these links to the Times coverage of the case. Such clear and straightforward reports which highlight the appallingly shabby behaviour of the Scottish government.

"SNP ministers attempted to prevent the harrowing testimony from the woman, originally sent to a young offender institution as a 17-year-old and returned to prison again in 2022, from being allowed in the case."

Thank goodness for a judge who was having none of it.

RhannionKPSS · 05/02/2026 21:26

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I totally agree, the GRC is a lie and should never have become law. I hope Sex Matters will consider pushing for abolishment, along with continuing to push back in court.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 21:06

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The only thing I'd say in favour of the govt arguments is that they seem roughly legally sound and plausible so long as women's rights are studiously and carefully ignored.

As soon as one considers a woman has rights equal to those of men, they collapse.

I guess I'll also concede they do roughly accord with the aims of the GRA.

Which also has been built around the deliberate absence and obfuscation of women's rights, funnily enough.

Catiette · 05/02/2026 20:51

Thanks all, and especially @ArabellaScott, for the commentary and direct quotes.

Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2026 18:40

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 05/02/2026 16:54

Fair enough, I didn't check before thinking out loud.

It's more that it's a bit of a shock that it's been getting done for such a long time. The best part of 20 years that the SPS have disregarded women in favour of men.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 05/02/2026 18:37

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OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 05/02/2026 18:35

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MyAmpleSheep · 05/02/2026 18:25

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 05/02/2026 18:24

At one point today the respondent's barrister seemed to be falling back on 'well, mixed changing areas seem to work OK for swimming pools so it should work OK in prisons' or something similar.

All the bricks in the wall need to be knocked down otherwise activists will keep trying to connect them together again.

It was worse: what he said was mixed-sex swimming was ok. He acknowledged there were single-sex changing areas.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 05/02/2026 18:24

RhannionKPSS · 05/02/2026 18:18

Thanks to all on this thread, let’s see if Lady Ross is as sensible as I think she is and finds that women deserve single sex prisons.

As you probably all know the women’s prisons were targeted by trans activists because they knew if they could get men into those single sex spaces , then the rest of our single sex spaces would be easy to infiltrate.
Let’s hope Scottish Government pay their debt to FWS very soon too

At one point today the respondent's barrister seemed to be falling back on 'well, mixed changing areas seem to work OK for swimming pools so it should work OK in prisons' or something similar.

All the bricks in the wall need to be knocked down otherwise activists will keep trying to connect them together again.

RhannionKPSS · 05/02/2026 18:18

Thanks to all on this thread, let’s see if Lady Ross is as sensible as I think she is and finds that women deserve single sex prisons.

As you probably all know the women’s prisons were targeted by trans activists because they knew if they could get men into those single sex spaces , then the rest of our single sex spaces would be easy to infiltrate.
Let’s hope Scottish Government pay their debt to FWS very soon too

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/02/2026 17:42

A sincere thank you to everyone who's listened and commented so the rest of us don't have to listen to the complete fuckwittery spoken by those determined to wedge men into women's prisons. Flowers

womendeserveequalhumanrights · 05/02/2026 17:33

If they're going to such pains to hear from the TIM about what might make him suicidal you think they'd at least bother to ask women - who may very well have previously experienced domestic abuse and coercive control - whether it would make them suicidal to be locked up with a man pretending to be a woman forcing them to lie (showering with them etc).

I bet the number of women this would make suicidal is higher than the number of suicidal TIMs.