Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

741 replies

weegielass · 03/02/2026 10:21

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
AnSolas · 03/02/2026 12:51

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:25

I don't agree with AO'N! If men and women have to be kept in separate accommodation, how could it ever be lawful for a management decision be made to place a transman in the male estate? On team judge here I think. But I'm not sure why he's going there - I would have thought it wasn't needed to make his broader point.

The Scottish government meanwhile argues that the Equality Act was designed to give people a basis on which to make a claim of discrimination.
Its written arguments state that the Act "does not mandate sex segregation", and "does not absolutely prohibit deviation from any norm".

And the whole mixed sex always unless proven valid reason for single sex goes whoooosh then look a squirrel when TIFs are in play.

If women will not be placed in mens prisons due to 1on1 prison violence (rape) risk why is the SPS saying SSS with some of the other sex is allowed under the EA10

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/transparency-data/2026/01/prisons-guidance-for-women-scotland-judicial-review-answers-and-note-of-argument/documents/for-women-scotland-judicial-review-note-of-argument/for-women-scotland-judicial-review-note-of-argument/govscot%3Adocument/For%2BWomen%2BScotland%2BLtd%2Bv%2BScottish%2BMinisters%2Band%2BLord%2BAdvocate%2B-%2BNote%2Bof%2BArgument.pdf

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/02/2026 12:49

This highlights the insanity and utter cruelty of this ideology.

The idea that there is a degree of passing that permits one man access to the female estate but denies another man is nonsense and cruel. It would be far better to never lie to these men by pretending that we think they are actually women.

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:45

Women don't commit the same types of offences and get shorter sentences for that reason.

ickky · 03/02/2026 12:31

Jo Phoenix evidence from Darlington being used again. 😀

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:28

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:26

Yes, but it doesn't therefore follow that they can lawfully be placed in male SS spaces.

Show quote history

Absolutely.

It's really dangerous ground to skate over this, especially given the recent case in the secure mental health sector.

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:26

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/02/2026 12:26

It's the same thing that came out in FWS supreme court. TIFs can be excluded from male SS spaces for privacy /dignity of men and the safety of the TIF. TIFs can also be excluded from female SS spaces if the nature of their body mods makes them "pass" and therefore cause distress to women.

Show quote history

Yes, but it doesn't therefore follow that they can lawfully be placed in male SS spaces.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/02/2026 12:26

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:22

I think it's a fair point actually - doesn't make sense to me to make a strong claim about the nature of a group - women - and then exclude trans identifying women from it even in extremis.

It's the same thing that came out in FWS supreme court. TIFs can be excluded from male SS spaces for privacy /dignity of men and the safety of the TIF. TIFs can also be excluded from female SS spaces if the nature of their body mods makes them "pass" and therefore cause distress to women.

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:25

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:25

I agree. His point that it's a management issue is true. But I don't think it should be argued that a TIF could be lawfully placed in the male estate.

Show quote history

Jinks

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:25

I don't agree with AO'N! If men and women have to be kept in separate accommodation, how could it ever be lawful for a management decision be made to place a transman in the male estate? On team judge here I think. But I'm not sure why he's going there - I would have thought it wasn't needed to make his broader point.

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:25

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:22

I think it's a fair point actually - doesn't make sense to me to make a strong claim about the nature of a group - women - and then exclude trans identifying women from it even in extremis.

I agree. His point that it's a management issue is true. But I don't think it should be argued that a TIF could be lawfully placed in the male estate.

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:23

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:20

Judge sounding slightly testy now trying to get to the bottom of the argument about transmen.

Indeed

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/02/2026 12:23

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 03/02/2026 12:13

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl83ggln40o

Some cracking quotes from AO here!

That is a surprisingly good article from the BBC, very clear.

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:22

I think it's a fair point actually - doesn't make sense to me to make a strong claim about the nature of a group - women - and then exclude trans identifying women from it even in extremis.

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 12:20

Judge sounding slightly testy now trying to get to the bottom of the argument about transmen.

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:18

The idea that women in prison are going to be terrified of a TIF and more than happy to be accommodated with a TIM is utterly ridiculous.

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 12:17

pontefractals · 03/02/2026 12:00

Is it asking for the name of the meeting or for your name, ie it wants you to set up an account?

Show quote history

Thank you and thanks to @OhBuggerandArse . I'm in now!

SternJoyousBeev2 · 03/02/2026 12:04

AO gives no shits. He just says it as it is 😂

pontefractals · 03/02/2026 12:00

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 11:50

Sorry for asking again and maybe being thick...

I've downloaded the app to watch the livestream and it's asking for name of meeting? Am I doing something wrong?

Is it asking for the name of the meeting or for your name, ie it wants you to set up an account?

OhBuggerandArse · 03/02/2026 11:56

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 11:50

Sorry for asking again and maybe being thick...

I've downloaded the app to watch the livestream and it's asking for name of meeting? Am I doing something wrong?

There's a direct Webex link in the webpage which will take you there without needing to add the name.

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 11:54

From Nick Wallis

AO were dealing with the point raised that the respondents say we cannot raise this petition on a hypothetical basis. But their defence is hypothetical. "So that's slightly odd."

😂

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 11:50

Sorry for asking again and maybe being thick...

I've downloaded the app to watch the livestream and it's asking for name of meeting? Am I doing something wrong?

Sitwithit · 03/02/2026 11:50

Sound has come on 👍

Sitwithit · 03/02/2026 11:48

I've just started watching the livestream but can't hear anything. Have they switched off sound while taking a break or have I got a tech issue?

AnSolas · 03/02/2026 11:40

BettyBooper · 03/02/2026 11:31

From Nick Wallis

'LR your analysis takes as source material Mr Maycock's work which presents a range of views amongst women who have shared accommodation with TIMs/trans women. I think w/o wanting to get into the detail of that survey too much - there are women who say it was okay and some...who say it was really not okay. You say let's look at the facts, but is it relevant to take into account there are different perspectives'

I'm sure the Judge is just play devil's advocate here but... What other prison rules to we disregard because 'some are ok with it? 😵‍💫

Edited

Drug taking and........
wellllll ?? any other crime ?

🍿