is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

Why are they continually referencing violent Transwomen prisoners? even a non violent Transwoman in a female prison creates a humiliating and degrading environment for the female prisoners and staff.

But wouldnt the obligation be to ensure their opportunities for self harm are limited as far as possible rather than meeting their demands whether that be a demand to be moved to the female estate or a demand by a non trans identifying male to be moved to a lower security facility closer to their home?

All of these risible arguments were dealt with firmly by the SC. I can hardly believe the Scotgov are retrying it, again, in a lower ciurt. Are they not embarrassed?!

Plenty of males are at risk of suicide - do they all get put into women's prison to improve their mental health?

'A rule without exceptions, such as the one FWS say should be implemented, can only be lawful if the occasional hard case only leads to a breach of someone qualified rights, such as their article 8 rights to privacy, family life etc.'

Putting any male into a women's prison breaches every woman's right to a single sex prison. If they dont believe a.single sex space is justified they will have to make all.prisons mixed sex.

I think a genuine risk of suicide by members an identifiable group does fall under Article 2. That’s not going anywhere near as far as saying that any and all demands must be met under the threat of self harm.

A significant argument made yesterday was that when considering human rights, they are already baked in to the EA2010. Parliament was well acquainted with the 1998 Human Rights Act when it passed the EA. If the EA authorizes someone to act in a certain way that person can’t have a second bite at the cherry in a domestic court to say “yes the EA allows that but the HRA doesn’t”. That’s not within the authority of a domestic court.

It will be interesting to see if the judge agrees.

Is someone choosing to harm themself a breach of their right to life? This is an abusers charter to get whatever they want at all times by just threatening to harm themselves.

I was trying and failing dismally to keep track of both this and the GEO Amey live feed.

Another point that the SHRC made was about whether “bright line” or “blanket rules” are legal. He said that where unqualified rights (such as the right to life) are concerned, hard and fast rules that might sometimes lead to an individual’s rights being breached can’t be justified.

A rule without exceptions, such as the one FWS say should be implemented, can only be lawful if the occasional hard case only leads to a breach of someone qualified rights, such as their article 8 rights to privacy, family life etc.

The judge said it was helpful to have the SHRC advocate's perspective.

I'm a bit worried that she's going to go along with the 'just because this policy has problems doesn't mean we can't have a policy at all' stance.

So, even the Scottish HRC recognizes the rights of women prisoners and staff don’t appear in the guidance as factors to be taken into account.

I wonder how the Scottish Ministers are going to explain that one away.

Were you able to pay attention through that? I don't know if I just couldn't concentrate because I've got a lot on my mind, or if I'm so far from understanding his points that they were sliding off my ears.

I think that one was moved on her request and was removed back to the Womans Prison within days by the Prison.

A woman who may be on MN but was on X as I think KPSS(?). She worked in the Prison service campaigns and does talks on the impact one man has in the Womens Prisons mentioned it in one of her recorded speeches

@Justme56

Wow, do you have any links?

According to information online figures for 2022/3 there were 3 TM in prison in Scotland and 2 were in the male estate. Not much information since.

So a man being housed with other men? So what?

Well there was that recent case of a TIF put in a male psychiatric ward who was RAPED WITHIN AN HOUR.

So you know, probably not safe putting TIFs in male prisons. And that is the same reason we don't want men in women's prisons, wards or anywhere else. The risk is the same risk, just amplified because it's men who specifically want to override that safeguard and are using deception to do so.

Using TIFs as some kind of reason to let rapey men into women's spaces is quite the coercively controlling master manipulation.

Women are not support animanls for males!!!!!!

Good point from the judge about making men's estates safer in order to house TIM rather than housing them in the women's.

It means whatever they fancy it means on any given day.

Thanks both. I admire AO's manner, sorry to have missed that one!

This man today keeps talking about transgender prisoners who want to live in their chosen gender (or possibly 'as' their chosen gender). I wonder if it would be within the judge's role that she could ask what he means by that? I don't like the idea that 'living in/as your chosen gender' is something that we all understand and agree upon.

AO said 'Lets start from the beginning....I'm not going to break into song' 😂

@Sitwithit It was just a quip from AO when he was speaking this morning.

I've had a quick search and the only thing I can find is one trans identified female was placed in a male prison and the next day was transferred to the female estate.

It really boils my piss that women are once again being used as a human shield reason that males can go into SSS.

FUCK RIGHT OFF