is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

This is an interesting quote "whether they went through puberty in their acquired gender" do they think that's even a possibility?!

Me too!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79rpprvz0yo

If post op transwomen are in such danger being imprisoned with the other men why are actual women allowed to work in those places as guards, tutors, nurses and the like? It's almost like the SPS think they can manage the risk.

I imagine that there is a range of categories of men who are in danger of being sexually assaulted in men's prisons. It's not women's problem to solve.

On the issue of post-op transsexuals asking to be the exception - the naked aggression some of them have demonstrated on FWR threads just adds to the clarity of why they should not be in women's prisons.

Maybe I’m really heartless but I couldn’t give 2 shiny shits about the safety of post op transsexuals in the male prison estate, nor whether any male prisoners who say they are women kill themselves. Decisions have consequences. Still doesn’t entitle you to a woman’s prison

I meant to say population tsk

I love that Nick Wallis is on to the biggest heist and subsequent gaslighting of women since the post office scandal.

https://genderblog.net/fws-day-2-dawn-of-the-intervenors/

Nick Wallis' blog.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/16/killer-criminal-record-wiped-clean-self-identified-woman/

Alex Baker, whose record was accidentally wiped when he 'transitioned'.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/20/four-killers-trans-murderer-misgendered-scotland/

'Alexandria Stewart, a transgender woman in HMP Greenock previously known as Alan Baker, claims fellow inmate Jane Sutherley carried out a four-year campaign, between Jan 1 2019 and March 23 2023 of verbal abuse that left them feeling suicidal.
The allegations led to Sutherley being charged with behaving in a “threatening and abusive manner”, with the alleged offence aggravated by “transgender prejudice”. She denies the charge'

https://archive.ph/xujbY#selection-3343.0-3347.186

Well, yes.

https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/23801484.greenock-prison-inmate-charged-alleged-transphobia/

I do look forward to the forms for those 'scrutinising' the 'appearance' of men to decide if they look ladylike enough to be put in with the women.

This is true.

Yet what is also just as true is the deterrents that women face to stop them from complaining. Including an endless parade of emotional manipulation. But that is certainly not all- the coercive options are legion.

'It may be necessary to look at their appearance' - image isn't showing yet.

Depends how he looks. According to the SHRC.

It really isn’t hard to understand.

One male person’s subjective belief that not based on material reality should not be considered material when safeguarding female people. If a male person is vulnerable, there are vulnerable male sections available. I don’t believe these will be with sex offenders, because that would be contradictory to put vulnerable male people in that situation.

There is even a male prisoner section for those with trans gender identities. It was initially rejected because it is not with female people but I believe it is now being used for purpose.

Any male person has a high likelihood of having their correct sex identified by female people. Therefore, it was never appropriate to lock female people, many who need space away from any male person, in with male people. That always had the potential, and we know it has indeed happened, to traumatise, or retraumatise, vulnerable female people.

No female persons is either a security shield, a validation resources (as we have seen from previous testimony) or therapeutic resources for any male person.

Secondly they could say that merely by virtue of being trans-identifying, a man is less of a danger to women. That would tie them up in knots having to define what precise element of a man being trans-identifying reduces the hazard to women compared to other men.

It would be interesting to see how they argue that a violent male murderer who murdered a cell mate is less of a risk than a man on remand for a fraud charge.

And yet, no organisation or individual should be making a decision like this based on someone’s threat to commit suicide. If this man was known to have suicidal ideation, surely he would have been under specific care. But not in the women’s estate.

https://www.sps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-09/HDC%20-%20Equality%20and%20Human%20Rights%20Impact%20Assessment.pdf

SPS impact assessment.

SHRC :

'... regrettably, it is not difficult to identify examples of transgender prisoners
who have died by suicide in Scottish prisons (see, for example, the recent Fatal Accident
Inquiry into the death of Sarah Jane Riley [2025] FAI 42 which records that the
deceased reported self-harm after being told she was to return to the male estate (at
paragraph 19))'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7771471.stm

Riley was imprisoned for attempted murder, but subject to a Lifelong Restriction Order:

'Riley has a long record which includes setting fire to public buildings and threatening teachers and care workers as well as members of his own family.
"He was effectively expelled from nursery," said an astonished judge.
Lord Uist had called for background reports before sentencing. He said: "They make alarming reading. It is clear to me from these reports that you represent a very serious risk to the public."
"You have fantasies which have intensified with your age," he added.
The court heard that Riley abused alcohol and drugs, experienced hallucinations and was given to explosions of anger and rage.'

From the FAI:

'Around February 2015, Sarah declared her wish to live as a female and began living as a female in adult male open conditions. SPS recognised her protected status as a trans woman from 9 March 2015. On 26 June 2015, Sarah transferred to Cornton Vale Prison. The transfer to the female estate was not successful and Sarah encountered many difficulties with other prisoners.
On 31 July 2015, the prison authorities became aware that Sarah had suicidal ideation. She was placed in segregation under Rule 95 after this and remained in the Separation and Reintegration Unit (SRU) for the remainder of her time at Cornton Vale.

During 2015 Sarah required medical attention on two occasions following self-harm incidents in response to being told she would be returned to the male estate.
On 28 October 2015 Sarah was returned to Perth Prison after indicating she would live as a male. She was removed from the suicide prevention regime then used by SPS in November.
She expressed anger and upset at the way she had been treated at Cornton Vale and claimed she was being forced to stop the transition from male to female. During her time in custody Sarah was subjected to lengthy periods of isolation.
Sarah was again refused parole in November 2015. In December she stated clearly that she wanted to live as a woman and believed she was being punished for being transgender.
In March 2016 she stated that she wished to be referred to as Sarah and in May she was moved to the mainstream conditions of Perth Prison.
The Risk Management Team at Perth carried out an assessment of Sarah using the International Personality Disorder Examination (IPDE) and Psychopathy Checklist Revised (PCL-R).
This work was completed in June 2016 when Sarah was 26 years old. It would not have been appropriate to carry out these assessments at a younger age.
The conclusion reached was that she met the diagnostic criteria for Paranoid Personality Disorder, Emotionally Unstable (Borderline Type) Personality Disorder and Anxious Personality Disorder. There were also features of dissocial and schizoid personality disorders.
Sarah was again refused Parole in 2016 and 2017 but was transferred to the open estate in October 2017 and to Castle Huntly Prison with some home leave at Anchor House, Perth.
In July 2018 the Parole Tribunal decided to direct her release and she was released to Anchor House on licence. During the time she was residing at Anchor House, Sarah spoke regularly about the OLR and stated she would end her life if she was recalled to prison'

https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/fai-determination-summaries/2025/11/04/fatal-accident-inquiry-in-to--the-death-of-sarah-jane-riley

Is the SHRC suggesting this very disturbed, violent man should have been put back in the women's prison?

https://www.scottishhumanrights.com/news/scottish-human-rights-commission-intervenes-in-judicial-review-brought-by-for-women-scotland-against-scottish-ministers-on-the-management-of-transgender-people-in-custody/

SHRC written submission