Page 14 | is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

weegielass · 2026-02-03T10:21:26+00:00

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

MyAmpleSheep · 05/02/2026 12:05

I foresee a situation where men decide post conviction to transition so they can have access to the more feminine looking trans men in the trans unit.

then, it will suddenly become very important to distinguish between “genuine” trans people and others.

That is, as soon as it becomes a men’s problem.

TheBlythe · 05/02/2026 12:00

There is just one dedicated women’s prison in Scotland so how is the ‘but travel time….’ different?

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/02/2026 11:58

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 05/02/2026 11:50

I see what you mean but wouldn't TIMs be housed with other high risk prisoners rather than on their own (meaning that overall there would be higher numbers)

The third space would be general high risk rather than specifically trans

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Yes my understanding is that they would be in a unit with other vulnerable male prisoners. Not a specific trans unit.

MyAmpleSheep · 05/02/2026 11:56

I point out that the SPS didn’t provide an affidavit from anyone asserting that it was not possible to have a trans unit or find another way to manage trans people. Is their advocate allowed to give evidence to that effect himself?

MyAmpleSheep · 05/02/2026 11:51

fanOfBen · 05/02/2026 11:45

The argument is that it would be like solitary confinement, a single transman with nobody else; also, given Scotland's low population density compared to England, that it might impose unreasonable travel times on relatives visiting etc.

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That doesn’t make sense. 80% of trans identifying men in the Scottish prisons are in the male estate. That means there must be at least 5 trans identifying men in total. 5 is enough for a unit.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 05/02/2026 11:50

fanOfBen · 05/02/2026 11:45

The argument is that it would be like solitary confinement, a single transman with nobody else; also, given Scotland's low population density compared to England, that it might impose unreasonable travel times on relatives visiting etc.

Show quote history

I see what you mean but wouldn't TIMs be housed with other high risk prisoners rather than on their own (meaning that overall there would be higher numbers)

The third space would be general high risk rather than specifically trans

fanOfBen · 05/02/2026 11:45

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 05/02/2026 11:36

Surely that makes it easier to have a trans unit?

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The argument is that it would be like solitary confinement, a single transman with nobody else; also, given Scotland's low population density compared to England, that it might impose unreasonable travel times on relatives visiting etc.

MyAmpleSheep · 05/02/2026 11:45

i have this weird fantasy that the SM’s counsel is going to stand up after the break and say “you know what, I don’t believe any of this rubbish either, they’re right, we are wrong, now let’s go to the pub.”

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:43

They dont know the mics on.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 05/02/2026 11:36

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:15

Scotland can't have a trans unit because of the low numbers.

Surely that makes it easier to have a trans unit?

TheBlythe · 05/02/2026 11:26

If sex doesn’t matter then why shouldn’t these men be in men’s prisons?

fanOfBen · 05/02/2026 11:24

GreenUp · 05/02/2026 11:22

Does Aidan get to respond to any of this?

Yes, he gets an hour at the end.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:23

Asking O Neill what prestidigitation means and how to pronounce it.

GreenUp · 05/02/2026 11:22

Does Aidan get to respond to any of this?

AnSolas · 05/02/2026 11:22

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:15

Scotland can't have a trans unit because of the low numbers.

Ireland (half) managed it with 2 males with GRCs

Still in the Womens wing of Limerick Prison but as soon as the Prisons had the companionship box ticked the males were moved into the specialist area.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:22

'Impose an artificial constraint' - by calling a trans identifyng man a man.

'One is unacceptable' - in context of suicide (of trans male)

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/02/2026 11:21

Ok so you have a transwoman prisoner who has raped and murdered women who claims they’ll commit suicide if not accommodated in a female prison. What then?

GreenUp · 05/02/2026 11:21

Does Aidan get to respond to any of this?

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:20

Judge notes suicide risk applies to all prisoners.

fanOfBen · 05/02/2026 11:20

I really don't think there's anything "artificial" about having to define "man" by biological sex!

Also, heaven forbid, but what happens if a woman in a female prison is suicidal because of the presence of men?

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:20

Ministers do their best, make mistakes, bad things happen. In this case, theyve been put in a straitjacket by the artificial parameter that they must describe a man as a.man and a woman as a woman.

Slight paraphrase.

BettyBooper · 05/02/2026 11:19

Very complex.
So very complex.
So very very complex.

Erm no.

fanOfBen · 05/02/2026 11:17

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:15

Scotland can't have a trans unit because of the low numbers.

Of transmen in prison, specifically - transmen are finally useful to the argument...

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2026 11:17

Trans unit also presents transport challenges.

Original poster

weegielass · 05/02/2026 11:17

so around election time.....?

OP posts: