How do navigate things with older/adult dc who are pro-trans ideology if you are not?

Well of course 'transwomen' are men.

There can be no space in this discussion for scientific illiteracy or flat out lying.

If trans identifying men are vulnerable in the male estate, they should be handled in the same way as any other vulnerable man in the male estate.

'They are men. It’s literally the only prerequisite to be a transwoman.'

Does anyone remember the fuss that was made by the people who believe in gender identity when a couple of young women identified as trans-transwomen?

Thank you, that’s very helpful advice. Her dad has a number of trans & non-binary friends who DD sees regularly and she’s started saying things like “that cat might be a boy or a girl or it might be non-binary”. It’s just not something a 7 yo can grasp. I think she thinks non-binary is another sex. I’ve explained to her that if her dad’s non-binary friend wants to be called they/them we should try and respect that as that what makes them feel comfortable and it’s kind to treat people how they want to be treated so long as they’re not hurting you in any way…but she is still a woman, she just wants other people to pretend treat her like she isn’t a man or a woman. Which would sound insanely complicated to an adult 20 years ago! So god knows how complicated it is for a child to understand. There’s probably a simpler way of explaining it to her, so will happily take any suggestions! I’ve also said that being non-binary is a choice that only an adult can choose to make. It’s not something you’re born as like a boy is born a boy and a girl is born a girl. I know her dad would go mental if he found out I told her this though and I worry he’s teaching her something completely different and it’s going to confuse her. Sorry, gone off topic a bit, I’m not overly concerned about this now, I just worry it may become an issue when she’s older but you’re probably right, going with the religion explanation is probably best

'They are men. It’s literally the only prerequisite to be a transwoman.'

Does anyone remember the fuss that was made by the people who believe in gender identity when a couple of young women identified as trans-transwomen?

I don't have time to search the site, but the most recent example is here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5487536-this-never-happens-another-transwoman-rapist-going-to-prison-in-scotland?reply=150392795&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Of course not. Trans women aren't men.

I have no proof because I don't generally think about this, but based on what seems to be the frequency of prison onset transitions talked about here, very few trans women commit serious crime after some point in their transitions. I would suggest it would be unsafe to house those women with men. Some trans women absolutely cannot be safely housed with men.

I think my most extreme thought (which is incomplete and unbaked) would be the use of of a trans-only estate for non-violent trans offenders.

I don't have time to search the site, but the most recent example is here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5487536-this-never-happens-another-transwoman-rapist-going-to-prison-in-scotland?reply=150392795&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Of course not. Trans women aren't men.

I have no proof because I don't generally think about this, but based on what seems to be the frequency of prison onset transitions talked about here, very few trans women commit serious crime after some point in their transitions. I would suggest it would be unsafe to house those women with men. Some trans women absolutely cannot be safely housed with men.

I think my most extreme thought (which is incomplete and unbaked) would be the use of of a trans-only estate for non-violent trans offenders.

Of course not. Trans women aren't men.

I have no proof because I don't generally think about this, but based on what seems to be the frequency of prison onset transitions talked about here, very few trans women commit serious crime after some point in their transitions. I would suggest it would be unsafe to house those women with men. Some trans women absolutely cannot be safely housed with men.

I think my most extreme thought (which is incomplete and unbaked) would be the use of of a trans-only estate for non-violent trans offenders.

You simply cannot bring yourself to say that all transwomen should be placed in men's prisons, irrespective of their crimes or their feelings can you.

”I think the gleefulness I've seen here (other prison threads) from posters who promote prison rape as some type of justice is disgusting and unfeminist.”

Who has done this? Which posters have ‘promoted’ this as some kind of justice on MN?

This is a very serious claim to make.

Sorry, in Italy at the moment.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions. Trans women who have been violent, sexually or otherwise, toward women should be scrutinised and attention paid to the context and level of violence. I personally would not house a prison-onset trans woman with any non-trans women. I would also be unlikely to house them with trans women, to be honest.

I think the gleefulness I've seen here (other prison threads) from posters who promote prison rape as some type of justice is disgusting and unfeminist.

Sorry, in Italy at the moment.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions. Trans women who have been violent, sexually or otherwise, toward women should be scrutinised and attention paid to the context and level of violence. I personally would not house a prison-onset trans woman with any non-trans women. I would also be unlikely to house them with trans women, to be honest.

I think the gleefulness I've seen here (other prison threads) from posters who promote prison rape as some type of justice is disgusting and unfeminist.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions.

This first sentence doesn't seem consistent with this second sentence:

Trans women who have been violent, sexually or otherwise, toward women should be scrutinised and attention paid to the context and level of violence.

Trans identifying men's sexual violence is to be contextualized, but not that of men who don't claim to be women?

Sorry, in Italy at the moment.

I would say everyone guilty of sexual assault of anyone should be sent to a maximum security institution, no questions, no exceptions. Trans women who have been violent, sexually or otherwise, toward women should be scrutinised and attention paid to the context and level of violence. I personally would not house a prison-onset trans woman with any non-trans women. I would also be unlikely to house them with trans women, to be honest.

I think the gleefulness I've seen here (other prison threads) from posters who promote prison rape as some type of justice is disgusting and unfeminist.

@onepostwonder what do you think of this issue? Trans women who have a history of sexual assault against women being housed in female prisons. I cannot possibly see an argument for this when there is so much hard evidence to show they are, and have been sexually abusive to the women they’re housed with? And it’s not the same as “well other female prisoners sexually assault their fellow prisoners too”. Yes they do, and both experiences must be horrendous but being sexually assaulted by another woman is just not the same as being sexually assaulted by a man..or to be kind, a trans woman with a penis.

Trans "women" are by their very definition male and not actually women and therefore it is only right that they should be excluded from single sex spaces, even if I believed in their ridiculous conception of gender, it is impossible for a human to change sex and the law protects the characteristic of sex not a persons imagined gender identity.

Some people believe the earth is flat and that we are ruled by lizard people, lots of people believe ideas that are verifiably untrue, the gender woo brigade are just another group in that category.

Trans people around the world would disagree with your characterisation of trans people. Trans women are women. Etc.

The irony affects me as well.