Reasons for not moving right like young men

A small women's changing room with clothes hooks, lockers and a bench for DW's department I believe. Not all team members would be changing at the same time, but they wouldn't have a private space and often more than one woman would be changing at the same time.

I mean Ardern.

I'm sure Helen Clark is perfectly nice but fundamentally she's an uncharismatic, unpolished, take-no-shit woman of a type that's quite common here. She faced misogyny too but on the other hand she won 3 general elections. Very keen on human rights but not in a "be kind" way.

Sorry..do you mean Clark or Ardern?

Maybe a belief that Reform are sexist? I don't like Reform and I will only vote them reluctantly if Labour doesn't sort open borders out, crime etc and Tories continue to show few signs of being able to do so (I'm Gen Z FWIW)

But I don't think Reform as a whole are sexist. They may well have some sexist members but it's a bit hard for them to have Cunningham, Pochin, Kemkaran etc in prominent roles & then say that women should be in the kitchen (as some pps here seem to think they will do)

Personally I think it's more that incompetent people are being promoted on the left, both men & women. Would you call Starmer a bold leader?

I like Shababa Mahmood. She doesn't seem wet to me. There are other female Labour MPs I like : Sarah Champion for one. Rosie Duffield too. The issue is that these are not the ones at the top.

There are some female Democrats who seem able - Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, Gretchen Whitmer, Elissa Slotkin, & others who make up the so-called 'Mod Squad'. The problem imo is ineffective people like Harris, AOC etc were the ones promoted. Just as Biden was hung on to even when he wasn't fit.

Kemi Badenoch doesn't seem particularly efficient to me, though I may be judging her too soon, she's not had the chance to be in power yet. It's all very well to be 'masculine' and make bold statements,,but there's got to be actual substance there.

I think it's a bit generalising to say Tory women across the board are stronger: would that include Liz Truss? Or Theresa May?

Good post. Overall though, I think privacy is pretty important to men too, even though mixed changing clearly doesn't pose the same risks to them.

This

I'm not a Tory but these statements are demonstrably untrue. If a woman or black or brown person can't top the Tories, how to you explain May, Leadsom, Braverman, Zahawi, Kwarteng, Sunak, Truss, Mordaunt etc?

Yes, it's ironic Habib, probably one of the most hard-line to the point of seemingly advocating leaving migrants to drown (!) is half-Pakistani. You can certainly criticise these figures but making out it's a straightforward white against black and brown people conflict is a hugely unhelpful simplification.

One of these cases involved the alternative (for those who didn't want to change in front of a male) of a small room that didn't meet fire safety regulations IIRC.

So, you had a bloke swanning around in the ladies' changing room, and any woman who objected was pushed out and treated like crap.

I only worked in 3 London hospitals in the early 2000s, one of which has undergone a huge refurbishment and none of those had anywhere private for staff to change. They had a room with lockers and an open area where you changed. There were a few occasions when I would have really appreciated a shower but, even though there was theoretically one in the refurbished unit, it broke very quickly and someone took to storing her bike in it.

You'd expect to keep your underwear on, probably a T shirt or vest top on under the scrubs top, so not naked in the changing room but I wouldn't want any man seeing me like that

I've read of staff on neonatal units being forbidden to change into scrubs in toilet cubicles because of infection control. So although it might not be written in your contract 'female staff are required to change their clothes in the presence of male staff, should that male person claim to be really female', it's not difficult to see the problems created by this total disregard for female staff. It's Hobson's choice really.

wasnt it a large cupboard that was offerred to the Nurses from Fife?

The changing room had toilets but it was discussed in the trial how that was unhygienic to change to go onto shift. The alternative was a cupboard, I think.

Aah, you have made the classic mistake of assuming that the lanyard class in the NHS actually gave a flying fuck about the rights and needs of the female nurses.

No, they did not. Hence, the tribunals mentioned by Ophelia.

So there was no way for people to get changes unless taking their clothes off in front of each other? No cubicles at all? Sorry I just don't buy that, sounds like a HR violation if not a slam-dunk sexual harrassment claim.

I'm afraid AI hasn't got a clue about this. It's just guessing what the situation is for nurses' changing rooms in UK hospitals. DW didn't have individual changing facilities in any of the many hospitals she worked in. Fortunately there were separate men's and women's changing rooms though.

You don't have to argue, the facts are clear...

Do nurses have to get undressed in front of other nurses in the uk changing rooms?

No — nurses in the UK are not required to undress in front of other nurses in changing rooms.

In NHS hospitals and most private healthcare settings, staff changing areas are typically designed with privacy in mind. What this looks like varies by hospital, but usually includes things like:

Individual changing cubicles or curtained areas
Lockers in shared rooms but separate spaces to change
Toilets or accessible private rooms you can use instead

In some older facilities, you might have a more open shared room, but even then, staff are generally expected to change discreetly (e.g., underclothing kept on, or using a towel/gown), not fully undress in front of others.
Importantly:

There is no policy requiring communal undressing
Staff can usually request privacy or use an alternative space if they’re uncomfortable

Employers have a duty under workplace health and safety and dignity policies to provide reasonable privacy
If someone did feel pressured to undress openly in front of colleagues, that would generally be considered inappropriate and something they could raise with a manager, union rep, or HR.

But they are not legally required to undress in front of other people. They can use a cubicle/curtain or something else. I can't imagine HR saying "No you have to take your clothes off in front of your coworkers"

I'm not British but is getting undressed in front of others really part of someone's job? Like I have lots of old self-harm scars on my leg so I honestly couldn't do that as career if I was required to undress in front of others (the trans issue aside)

I might be an anomaly. I used to be super left wing but am now more centre-right. I think everyone has their own journey even if we can notice certain trends

In terms of why women are mostly gone to the left I think it is because the left prioritizes welfare services and women are bigger uses of those services.

Yes, Theodore Dalrymple would argue similar for the white underclass in 1990s Birimgham where he worked as a doctor, for one. I do think with some black conservatives there can be an element of almost conspiracy style thinking (it was all engineered to hurt black people) which links to wider conspiracy suspicions in the black community. It's fully understandable why these suspicions would develop but the fact it's a wider pattern suggests to me it's probably more an issue of bad policies than racially targeted ones

Apologies for bringing this thread up again but this is an interesting point that I've seen raised a lot recently, but I feel it's too simple an explanation re black families.

I've read this argument re black conservatives from Sowell and others but I think it's more complex that that. Authors from E Franklin Frazier to Abraham Kardiner to Kenneth Clark and others were reporting higher rates of disengaged fathers and full-on absent fathers in black families dating back to the 1930s.

Daniel Moyinhan wrote his famous report about black fathers and their absence un the early 1960s, and the LBJ welfare policies were in response to that. You can certainly criticise their effect, but on the other hand, if they created the problem, why the Moyinhan Report? Imo the evidence overall shows that the roots go deeper though the 1960s sexual revolution and welfare changes did escalate it.

Bloody hell! With a closed mind like that she's bound to excel in what's currently Leftist politics where feelings are more important than actual facts 🤦‍♀️