The Gender war...This didn't come from the streets

Self determination means it's upto the individual to decide what being a man or woman means to them.

I think you're confusing stereotypes with typical behaviours. Trans people aren't saying that there are sex specific expectations people should subscribe to but rather that there are typical behaviours that the sexes do engage in that by virtue of their inclinations are a better fit to.

Oooh we’re on to “inherent knowing”! So explain exactly, without using sexist, outdated stereotypes, how a man would know he’s really a woman or vice versa and why people should take this navel gazing bollocks seriously?

Good post. I rarely see those crying about transwomens marginalisation dipping their hand into their pocket or even supporting or talking about the enquiry’s into the cover up by the authorities of girls being groomed by Pakistani rape gangs. Or the charities like Maggie Oliver Foundation.

Those young women have been let down by so many people in society (social workers, councillors, medics, teachers, MPs, local authorities, journalists, police etc) and their voices were truly ignored by so many people. I am guessing groomed girls are not seen as the correct type of victims by the BeKind brigade.

We all support different causes but I know people (like the 18 year old mentioned above) that are very political but clearly don’t want to even discuss groomed girls in conversation.

I think trans ideology was a top down movement rather than grass roots. The question i ask myself is why?

You have said that there is "psychological & behavioural interchangeability between men & women", but at the same time there are "typical behaviours, interests & inclinations to either group that distinguish them from one another".
These two statements seem to contradict each other.

No they don't because that typical behaviours can be shared doesn't mean everyone shares in them.

Do you believe that it is the interchangeability between male and female behaviour or the differences in typical male and female behaviour which leads to transgenderism?

Yes I think that's a major part of it. But trans people also speak of an inherent knowing that also drives their identification with being trans.

So do you agree that a woman who doesn't conform to any of the regressive gender stereotypes attached to her sex is still a woman? Self determination means that she can behave as she wants and not be forced into a gendered box.

Transgender ideology would say she's a man.

but that would only work if men could get pregnant, menstruate and give birth wouldn’t it? And they can’t. So they can never self determine as women because no male body can do any of those things. And women are discriminated against and suffer inequality because of those things. And don’t bring up infertile women. Just don’t.

You have said that there is "psychological & behavioural interchangeability between men & women", but at the same time there are "typical behaviours, interests & inclinations to either group that distinguish them from one another".

These two statements seem to contradict each other.

Do you believe that it is the interchangeability between male and female behaviour or the differences in typical male and female behaviour which leads to transgenderism?

You could say the same about reproductive characteristics defining social roles & norms. Ultimately, true liberty is about self determination.

And? A woman is still a woman, even if her behaviour, interests and inclinations are more like those of a typical man.

Only an extreme conservative who thinks nobody should ever depart from their gendered boxes would think that someone needed to "change sex" just because they don't conform to regressive gender stereotypes.

now you’re just being sexist.

But gender ideology is the reverse. Feminism says you can wear or behave as you like as a female, not be defining by gender roles and norms. Gender ideology states how you look and act defines whether you are a woman. GI is claiming someone can “feel like a woman” if they follow the gender norms laid out by women. See all the men claiming they are women and knew because they like wearing women’s clothes, or played will dolls when they were younger.

That shared psychology amounts to shared behaviours among the sexes doesn't mean there aren't typical behaviours, interests & inclinations to either group that distinguish them from one another.

You seem a bit confused.

If there is "psychological & behavioural interchangeability between men & women", why does anyone need to change their body to look like the opposite sex in order to express their "gender identity"?

The whole ideology of "gender identity" is based on the the premise that men have different psychology and behaviour from women. It's feminists who say that anyone can have any personality regardless of the sex of their body, not gender ideologues.

Gender ideology is based on social conformity. It says that certain behaviours are only for one sex or the other, so if you don't conform to the stereotypes for your own sex you must "be" the other sex, because conformity to stereotypes is everything. It's regressive nonsense.

Your thesis demonstrates a profound ignorance of biology & cultural structures that repress its diverse expression.

Trans identification is the natural conclusion of biology X feminism. The psychological & behavioural interchangeability between men & women was always waiting for permission to exist so inevitably when the 'conditions' finally allowed the flood gates opened.

The conservative mind that is inextricably tied to social conformism is naturally limited in its understanding biological diversity resisting it with claims of 'degeneracy' or 'power' grabs as eternal scapegoats.

Some of us are only just catching up and a clear explanation is helpful especially when trying to explain to the even less well informed.

Whoever this person is, what bubble have they been living in.

Everyone knows that TRAs are the shock troops of the queer invasions that happened in Universities in 80s.

It has always come from the chattering classes and the graduates from the universities that closed their women's studies units and became Gender studies (note the word gender) filtering into position at places of work like newspapers, tv and politics and started putting their queer politics into practice.

eg editor of the Guardian saying "every choice I make is based on my queer politics".

FWR has had lots of threads about this and how it evolved.

Where or who has anyone said it was from the streets.

Exactly. It's like entry criteria to the "club" of appearing to be socially aware and highly intelligent.

My daughters never went to uni and neither did 3 of my nephews and nieces. They all scoff at trans ideology, whereas the 4 who did go, are not speaking to me for my terf views.

No lies detected.

You won't find classism under the DEI umbrella. They don't want to pollute their cosy little meritocracy of 'progressiveness' with the great unwashed.

He nails it. We’ve said it on here before, it’s a luxury belief. I come from a working class background and don’t know anyone who has been taken in by it. Everyone I have spoken to about it, thinks it’s nonsense.

And yes, the TRAs have done a HUGE number on people.

Absolutely spot on, and absolutely brilliant writing.

👏👏👏

I know, I know... She's 18 and at a SW London private day school, with all that brings... having said that, she's genuinely somebody who's caring, is trying to be aware of her privilege, and would always want to do the right thing.

Her horizons are pretty limited at this point, and it can be tricky to introduce the issues you mention - if you go in with gusto and a load of evidence that counters her current beliefs, she shuts down. She holds those beliefs very fiercely because she thinks that makes her a nice person and I think there's just too much dissonance between what she currently believes, and the actual facts.

They're all also terrified of being cancelled - which has happened to her friends for different, but very trivial, reasons - so that becomes overwhelming when she thinks she might have to change tack. I've been taking a 'softly, softly, catchy monkey' approach, as has her mum. Slipping the odd fact in and then changing the subject, not expecting her to say anything, or declare a change of heart. I think it's starting to sink in, as she's less gung-ho about being pro-trans, but it's a slow process.

"So often we see the low paid nurse against the well paid management or doctor. Or the most marginalised in society who have cause to actually use a rape refuge lectured by the otherwise unemployable bourgeois management class fresh from their stonewall course on pronouns. "

👆This

who has cried at the thought of the poor trans and how they must be suffering

really? What suffering does she imagine?

How is she on Afghan women?
Or that whole group of African girls kidnapped from school?

The TRAs have really done a job on people haven’t they?

He really nails it.

It needs to be much more widely discussed in these terms. I put a similar argument (though nowhere near as cogent or eloquently argued) to my BeKind niece, who has cried at the thought of the poor trans and how they must be suffering, and it was very interesting to watch the penny drop and see how she was starting to ponder whether she was entirely right.