New trans equality civil servant at the Cabinet Office to focus on the ‘implications’ of 2025’s Supreme Court judgment

Thats a recent linguistic usage invented by gender ideologists.

For centuries man/woman have meant adult male/female human. And while yes, language can evolve, new niche definitions add to previous established ones, they dont replace them.

It looks like this reply is confusing sex with gender identity. Trans women do not literally become cis women in terms of chromosomes or all physical characteristics — that’s not what being a woman means in terms of gender identity. Gender is about identity, social role, and lived experience, not rewriting every biological trait. Medical and social recognition of trans people doesn’t claim they magically acquire all cis female anatomy, it acknowledges that their gender identity is real and valid, while sex-based protections can still exist where appropriate.

i assure you the ignorance is not mine.

About a year and a half ago, i was on your side of the debate... until someone pointed out that sex and gender is different... i went and did some research as i didn't believe them, and felt somewhat ashamed that i did not know this and had sat on the side of the fence believing anti-trans rhetoric this whole time...

now people in this position above do one of two things, they accept the shame and then further their knowledge to ensure they are learning and developing as an individual or, they don't want to as it makes them uncomfortable and they like living in ignorance. Which isn't peoples fault btw, that's the brains natural mechanism to hang onto safety and what makes you feel safe. But don't accuse me of ignorance when i know where the ignorance is, as i was once there....

I would love to have a reference for the “current scientific concensus” which states that men who self identify as women then become women, that they firstly change the genetic composition of every cell in their body, that they re adjust their pelvic bones to comply with the child delivering needs of their brand new uterus, Fallopian tubes , ovaries and self cleaning vagina. That their Adam’s apple disappears, that the increased and specific muscular development and strength produced by male puberty automatically adjusts to the muscularity and strength of women. That their penis and testicles are re absorbed, that their propensity to develop prostate cancer reduces to nil. That their feet shrink to fit womens shoes sizes, that their beards stop growing. That they have periods, go through the menopause ……….

It is rare on MN these days to see such ignorance of basic biology displayed so openly and I have to say it is almost refreshing to realise how far we have come in realising that the views expressed by @collat which were once so prevalent are actually now properly recognised as being based on fallacy, misconception and basic misinformation.

Men and women are terms describing gender, which is about identity and social expression, not strictly biological sex. People can identify as one or the other — or neither, which is non-binary — based on their deeply felt experience. Even if you don’t personally believe it, trying the hypothetical of separating sex and gender can help make sense of many debates and policies around these topics.

So tell us all about your great scientific understanding that demonstrates men can become women.

I'll wait ...

Its actually extremely complex

There will always be the extremists, just like in most topics. The extremists are the ones that generally don't get listened to but are easily used by people to spread hate, Most trans people are normal people, just living their lives wanting to be happy and feel accepted. Youve probably met many trans people and didn't even know it.

TWAW and TMAM ive not seen as an official slogan of the labour party themselves, but if they are using it then they are following current scientific consensus and moving the world to a better place.

Biological sex is not fully understood in every detail, and gender identity is also a developing area of study. Based on current medical and scientific consensus, trans women are women and trans men are men. Women and Men being gender terms, not sex terms. Sex based protection should then still exist.

Not at all. I support sex-based protections where needed, like single-sex spaces, which are about safety and fairness, not oppression. Recognizing trans people and their rights shouldn't erase women’s protections — the law and evidence show both can coexist. Gender diversity doesn’t undermine sex-based protections; it simply acknowledges human complexity.

So you are all for enforcing regressive socially construct norms that oppress women?

😂😂
Oh dear.
"Based on current medical and scientific consensus, trans women are women and trans men are men. Women and Men being gender terms, not sex terms".
😄😃

My bingo card is full.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1

I'm guessing you've done no research on this outside of tik tok and youtube/facebook shorts, some of us read books past a GCSE level, learning didn't need to stop after school (for some of us anyway)

Trans people do not deny their biological sex.

Research suggests they are born with a predisposition to traits, behaviors, and experiences typically associated with the opposite sex, which can cause significant distress if forced to conform to their assigned sex. This is similar to the evidence showing sexual orientation has a biological component. Historical examples of changing norms — like glam rock or royal court fashions — actually support the idea that gender is socially constructed and evolves over time, which aligns with my point. Trans and gender-diverse people have likely existed wherever gender roles have existed throughout all of time, even if earlier societies didn’t have the modern terminology. These examples do not require invoking “trans ideology” — they simply show that gender is complex, socially influenced, and that trans identities are a real, deeply felt aspect of human variation.

Biological illiteracy isn't big or clever, mate 🙄

What do you think people felt or did before the advent of trans ideology? Can you remember that time? It wasn't that long ago .What do you think about those of us here, or any one at all who didn't feel comfortable with the cultural, familial or self imposed expectations based on their sex? How did they resolve these feelings without the language of gender ideology to give it shape and form? How did people step outside of social stereotype and expectations to express themselves and their sexuality?

The difference, I suggest, is that before people didn''t deny they were male or female ( deny the reality of biological sex). People have always been various in their personality and preferences etc...if that is what you mean by 'gender fluidity'. Just think back to glam rock in the 1970's as but one example; or the extravagant flamboyance of men in certain royal courts throughout history; or Joan of Arc's attempt to enngage in what would have typically been a masculine pursuit. Think about the women's liberation movement and the gay liberation movement. People struggled to be who they were without claiming they were actually the opposite sex; to be free of rigid constraints predicated solely on their sex.

Its actually extremely complex

There will always be the extremists, just like in most topics. The extremists are the ones that generally don't get listened to but are easily used by people to spread hate, Most trans people are normal people, just living their lives wanting to be happy and feel accepted. Youve probably met many trans people and didn't even know it.

TWAW and TMAM ive not seen as an official slogan of the labour party themselves, but if they are using it then they are following current scientific consensus and moving the world to a better place.

Biological sex is not fully understood in every detail, and gender identity is also a developing area of study. Based on current medical and scientific consensus, trans women are women and trans men are men. Women and Men being gender terms, not sex terms. Sex based protection should then still exist.

Its actually extremely complex

There will always be the extremists, just like in most topics. The extremists are the ones that generally don't get listened to but are easily used by people to spread hate, Most trans people are normal people, just living their lives wanting to be happy and feel accepted. Youve probably met many trans people and didn't even know it.

TWAW and TMAM ive not seen as an official slogan of the labour party themselves, but if they are using it then they are following current scientific consensus and moving the world to a better place.

Biological sex is not fully understood in every detail, and gender identity is also a developing area of study. Based on current medical and scientific consensus, trans women are women and trans men are men. Women and Men being gender terms, not sex terms. Sex based protection should then still exist.

Please define ‘gender’?

It really is not that complex at all? What is "'complex?" The idea that this is too complex for people to understand has permitted all sorts to go on under cover of ignorance.

Earlier on you confidently stated that 'Gender' and 'Sex' were two separate things and that genderists ( believers in gender identity theory) were not intent on the erasure of sex and thus women's established sex based protections. That is simply false.

What did you make of the Labour party mantra TWAW and TMAM? The one they used to chant at people. They were definitely trying to conflate the concept of gender identity with the reality of sex. The whole concept of 'cis' women and 'trans' women was another attempt to suggest that some men are actually women and an attempt to blur the boundaries.

I support single-sex spaces — courts uphold these protections, and my earlier comment reflected that. Recognizing sex-based rights doesn’t stop us acknowledging trans people or ensuring they have protections where appropriate.

i didn't miss anything, its a very complex topic surrounded by lots of confusion, and rhetoric. Places like Finland are slightly more forward on this and already move toward gender neutral bathrooms where possible etc. Its inevitably where society over here will move towards if common sense is followed.

You’re correct that gender isn’t biologically measurable and is self-identified. At the same time, gender reflects social norms and roles historically linked to biological sex, which have evolved over time and vary across cultures. It is not an ideology or a belief system — it’s a way to describe how people experience, express, and navigate identity within society.

Gender expression and fluidity have existed for hundreds of years across cultures. Like sexual orientation, gender is a deeply personal aspect of identity that shapes how people live and interact, without denying the biological reality of sex.

You are also correct in that not everyone has a gender identity, these are non-binary people.