"A woman who is trans"

I’ve been think a lot over the last few days and I’m not sure how I’m feeling about all of this.

I’m curious how you came to your position. I’m assuming you have/had dysphoria and transitioned to try resolve that. Are you really okay describing yourself as a male or a man? I know it’s what we are, but you seem to feel very comfortable with that fact

Yes absolutely, it won't be the bones. No idea what does it, I'm no biologist, but I know I lost 2 UK shoe sizes over the course of a year or so. I've seen various theories online about how it happens. I knew it could but was honestly most surprised it actually did.

Indeed, I agree with your wider point. Due to support groups I've met lots of TWs at this point, and even as a male I feel I can definitely get an "eye" for those cues.

Mine too.

I also cannot get my wedding ring across my knuckles even with less muscle / fat around my knuckle. It is a sign of ageing.

How much of that is ligament tightening and fat / muscle change?

I doubt very much that the proportions of your hand and feet bones has shrunk. That would be hugely concerning and a major and significant negative side effect. However, your other tissue could be changing. For instance, have your hands changed shape? Do they resemble female hands and wrists at all? Also consider the difference in skeletal proportions in the arms where male people have longer bones so the joints are not quite in the same position as female people.

The point is though, and I know that you understand this Troubled Waters, is that when you put all the male body cues together, even after hormones, even after surgery, there are still male body cues to allow people to correctly identify male people's sex correctly.

@TroubledWatersTW I tried! I thought they got quite introspective around page 10 and might start to reflect, but we seem to be back to the previous antics now.

He is a male interacting with women who are saying 'no'. The behaviour pattern is old as time.

measurements of a measurable change in foot length.

I used to wear a size 38 shoe in my 20s. Now, in my 60s, I sometimes need a size 42. Our feet spread & lengthen with age.

Just on this, without arguing against your wider point at all: it does in some cases measurably affect hand and feet size, and indeed for me I do have before/after measurements of a measurable change in foot length.

I tried! I thought they got quite introspective around page 10 and might start to reflect, but we seem to be back to the previous antics now.

It's upsetting to me that people will judge me based on all the other trans people they encounter, but it is what it is. I can't blame people for seeing a trend, certain traits do seem to be prevalent amongst the TW population sadly.

Huh???

It's our genes & chromosomes which determine our sex.

When you start hearing teenaged girls refer to 'titty skittles', you know that a generation of young female people have been fucked over by misogyny. The despondency I have felt hearing my teens female friends referring to 'titty skittles' as if it is all just a laugh is deep.

That is when you realise how fucking huge this issue really is.

They know this. Isn't that why they refer to oestrogen supplements as "titty skittles"?
Everything else is surgery.

Indeed. TroubledWaters has given some advice grounded on experience.

It's noteworthy that @ThatOpalTurtle is not interacting with the other trans-identified male that has posted on this thread. It's biological women he wants, not the 'new-fangled' type.

Imagine thinking that boobs was all that was needed to signal that someone was 'female'. I hate to say it, but I know quite a few men with moobs. I think they would be hugely surprised that they are women now.

It really comes down to that very question that never gets answered:

What is the exact difference between a male person who takes hormones for a medical condition and has no penis or testes due to disease or injury and one who elects to have extreme body modification to fit their identity?

I really want to type a comparison but it’s crude so I shall refrain.

I think we have seen this from the slew of male posters in the past. This is literally what they think when one of them writes 'development of female sex characteristics'...

Then also is the ridiculous claim that their bodies now have the same hormone levels as female people, so they 'must' be female people now.

And all with the complete and utter ignorance of just what female breasts do vs male breast tissue.

It is also like the whole 'I have a vagina now' when the cavity inserted in their groin is in no way a 'vagina' regardless of the label they have claimed for it. It is fucking offensive to make these claims and they never understand why.

How can a trans identifying man be on hormone replacement therapy anyway? A man never had that mix of hormones to start with!

This is irrelevant. It is not scientific.

Let's see what Turtle believes taking estrogen changes physically in a male person....

Im a menopausal woman im not on HRT.

Given that my hormone levels will be lower than a trans identifying man, what toilets do I use since that trans identifying man seems to think it’s those levels that determine what toilet you use. Anyone?

Evidence shows it does not shrink your bones or any male features, no.

Did you genuinely think it did???? Didn't anyone explain to you it really does absolutely nothing?

I don't think you understand HRT does 1 hundredth of f all. It does not change your skeletal structure. It does not change your voice. It does not erase your adams apple. It does not give you hips. It does not shorten your height or limb length. It does not change your pelvic bone hence change your gait. It does not change your broad shoulders. It does not change your square male jaw. It does not change hand and feet size. HRT does absolutely fuck all but give you man boobs. That's it.

What did you possibly imagine HRT would do? Because it does not change your appearance or body in the slightest, bar boobs.

If I go on HRT, what laws can I break? Is that written on the packets for me?