Looking at men differently now I know too much?

I don't know anyone who thinks the average man is responsible for what Kim Jong/Putin/Wayne Couzens do. What women I know object to is men standing passively by or even approving the misogynistic opinions or actions of other men that they know. E.g., you know your friend is cheating on his wife but you don't say anything bc you value his friendship and don't want to make things awkward. You see another man at a bar slipping something in a woman's drink but don't get involved. You know your friend visits prostitutes but don't stand up for them or become outraged at how horrible that is and what a shitty human being he is. You say nothing when friends belittle women, talk over them, catcall them, expect them to listen to their problems, etc. You constantly give your tacit approval to misogynistic actions. Things like that are what I object to, not a man's failure to do anything about Kim Jong or Putin.

Really? If the topic was, "Why do women seem to cry more easily than men?", you think a transwoman saying, "Well, for what it's worth, I've been crying a lot since I'm taking oestrogens" would automatically not be well-received? I personally think it would be a very relevant piece of information.

it's no good the 'decent' ones standing by passively. If you are a bystander, you are part of the problem.

Said no woke person ever about the Muslim community.

I don't understand why there's this common view (among feminists) that it's only men that are responsible for the actions of complete strangers that share their sex. We don't see this view applied to other groups very much.

Not meaning to engage in whataboutery or try and make this about religion etc, but it baffles me that you have things like the Channel 4 survey where over half of UK Muslims state they believe homosexuality should be illegal and nobody dares to challenge this. But then a small proportion of men are wayward and suddenly it's the fault of every man.

It never occurred to me to think my partner is responsible for what men like Kim Jong/Putin/Wayne Couzens do, or even the bloke down the road who regularly fights with his wife. I don't think my Muslim workmate who comes to the gym with me sometimes is responsible for sorting out Islamic terrorism either.

I don't feel this high level theoretical stuff really works when applied to actual day to day life.

I just can't be arsed wading through the shitty ones on the off chance a decent one may be in there somewhere. Most men need to do better, it's no good the 'decent' ones standing by passively. If you are a bystander, you are part of the problem.

Is this not just the other side of the coin, though, of transwomen who have embraced stereotypical 'femaleness' - whether by wearing dresses, demanding to be called 'she', invading women's single-sex spaces, having surgery/implants and/or taking female hormones - and then declaring that they now fully know what it's like to be a woman?

Not trying to belittle your experiences, and thanks for sharing them; but I don't think any of us are denying that testosterone can have powerful and horrendous effects on very many men.

However, in the context of a biological female having artificially high, male-level, amounts of testosterone - which I believe studies have shown to increase risks of cancer in women - I don't think you can take that as proof that it's a given that all men will be affected that way.

You said that you've been on testosterone 'for years', but you weren't born with a body designed to have that level from puberty. It's a powerful hormone even for males who are supposed to have it - and that potential and concomitant strength and power is largely responsible for a lot of bad but also a lot of good in the male population as a whole - so surely it can't be a surprise that it would cause a woman's physiology to go haywire?

Any more than the transwomen who take drugs to enable them to supposedly 'breastfeed' babies can have anything like a true idea of the experiences of a woman who breastfeeds normally, with her biologically female body, following the whole natural process of pregnancy and giving birth and all that entails.

I'm absolutely not criticising you or saying that you shouldn't live as you feel happiest; but speaking as somebody who is GC in both directions, I don't believe that somebody can seek to modify their body to appear more stereotypically like the opposite sex and then somehow believe that they or their resulting experiences are representative of the people who are biologically that sex from birth.

I used to feel absolute rage towards men after reading Andrea Dworkin, though, of course, it is not healthy to be filled with anger and rage all of the time.

Of course Dworkin's life experiences around sex and men were very extreme and some women obviously do have such extreme experiences- but they are also not very typical nor 'normal'. Over focusing on the negative possibilities and things that have happened can negatively condition your overall feeling towards men and or towards sex.

There are obviously safeguards that can be put in place, though, to give some protection against such known risks...and single sex spaces are one of those. There is a very long history of male sexual abuse of women and of women being victimised by male sexual urges that makes such safeguarding measures an obvious, common sense solution.

So this would suggest that a large part of it is innate rather than driven solely by misogynistic attitudes. There have definitely been studies showing that men become more violent as testosterone increases, even within the normal range. I believe it was found to be linked to fight or flight response in the brain.

Men cook as well. Electrical faults are the second-leading cause. I don't see very many female sparkies.

Men are the at-fault driver far more often than women.

Having rolled out lab equipment into a building that was still under construction, I can testify that a large part of why women swerve construction is the shocking sexism shown by construction workers. I can also testify, having seen some of the stupid things these men do, that the reason why 95% of workplace fatalities are male is because men don't obey basic safety protocols such as clipping their fall arrest harness to the equipment they are using.

Really?? It doesn't strike you as relevant that people, no matter their sex, seem to cry more easily when they have higher levels of oestrogens? ... I'll admit I don't get it, but okay, I respect that.

It's simple really. From the moment I started taking testosterone, random women I don't know stopped being random people I don't know, and became breasts and behinds on legs. Suddenly I completely understood the male impulse to turn around to check a woman's behind on the street. I found myself staring at cleavages instead of faces. And even with the women I already knew, I found my eyes straying to body parts I'd never given attention to before.

And keep in mind that pre-testo, I thought of myself as almost exclusively male-attracted! I appreciated the female form, but only in an aesthetic way. Suddenly, it became very sexual indeed, but not even in the global way I used to look at men, where a man was a person first, with attractive features second. No, now it was attractive features first, person second.

So yeah, now that I got what I wanted from the testo (the voice and the beard, mostly), I'm realising that I don't need to endure that mindset any longer. I just really really hope it'll go away indeed...

Well I feel it every day. And of course it’s testosterone.. it’s the hormone given to men to ensure the continuation of the species, literally why we are here. It’s so weird when people discount it. It’s so powerful.

Well I feel it every day. And of course it’s testosterone.. it’s the hormone given to men to ensure the continuation of the species, literally why we are here. It’s so weird when people discount it. It’s so powerful.

That hasn't been my experience. I am an attractive woman but have never felt like 'prey' (except once, in one particular European city) I enjoy being attractive and male appreciation, although I do agree that some men take it too far, and of course some are predators. I don't think that you can blame testosterone for that, though. It is more socialisation.

Is that because you haven't felt sadness in three years, or have not been moved to tears by anything in three years?

I don't do big blubbering crying very often at all....more like shedding tears at the sadness or cruelty of the world ( terrible events; child abuse cases and so on); and sometimes as a way to process and release stressful or difficult feelings.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm certainly not saying your experience is invalid in and of itself.

I haven't cried in three years. I am a woman. A real woman. I thought that this place was against daft trans ideology.

I haven't cried in three years.

And that's another relevant piece of information I certainly wouldn't reject. I don't know, that's just how I form my opinions: by gathering as many bits of info as I can and looking for patterns. But I understand not everybody does things like me, so I'm sorry if I irritated you in the process.

I thought that this place was against daft trans ideology.

Yes? I don't defend trans ideology. I only shared my experience.

I haven't cried in three years. I am a woman. A real woman. I thought that this place was against daft trans ideology.

I'm not going to have children, never wanted to and never will want to (I like this site for its social commentary!) I sometimes feel at odds with how women are 'supposed' to be. That said, it's interesting what you say about the maternal urge coming after birth. My husband is not interested in having children either, so that won't happen for me, but it is interesting all the same.

Really?? It doesn't strike you as relevant that people, no matter their sex, seem to cry more easily when they have higher levels of oestrogens? ... I'll admit I don't get it, but okay, I respect that.

I've a strong sex drive too, and certainly like certain male 'specimens' ( Damiano David....for example) and certain 'styles' of masculinity - but even then I've still never been like my male friends, or gay male friends in the more detached way they approach sex.

Sometimes the maternal urge does not arrive until you've actually given birth, or when you're pregnant. I never grew up wanting children particularly, children came as a result of being with men who wanted children in the context of male/female relationships. I've three grown children and now two grandchildren, and whilst I'm not a particularly 'Mumsy' mother, I'm certainly don't regret having had the experience of motherhood and having children.

Women are all different - the only things they all have in common is the experience of being in a female body and the consequences of that. I actually feel connected to the females of other species too......and certainly when they have young.