Darlington nurses win their employment tribunal

@KermitTheToad what don't you understand?

We have no problem with transmen using female single sex spaces because they are, as you say, female.

“it engages with the human rights argument and explicitly says that there is NO right under Article 8 for a transgender person to access single sex spaces based on their gender identity.”

This is important, as you say. Because we keep pointing out that Article 8 is clear about exclusion when it is in the interest of safety. However, groups who declare it is a violation of human rights for these men to abide by a policy or law and use only male provisions keep reinforcing this dishonesty in the minds of those who never bother to check. And those people just keep repeating it unthinkingly.

Woman Of Year 2023

Lol

In his dreams.

On Rose's behaviour in the changing rooms: The tribunal essentially said that the nurses were understandably on high alert and fearful knowing that there was a man in the changing room and this led them to interpret what might otherwise be neutral acts (looking at someone in the eyes etc.) as being threatening (or pervy). There wasn't enough clear evidence that Rose's behaviour was threatening to make a finding of fact about this. So while the tribunal seemed to have sympathy and understanding for the nurses' interpretation of his behaviour there just wasn't enough evidence to justify a finding of sexual harassment. They basically found that he just didn't think about the nurses feelings at all.

While this might seem disappointing I think it is a legally sound decision on the facts.

But that is where the "He said, she said" type of evidence comes in. Far harder to prove than an actual policy.

Although I suspect they've been a little gentle on the fragrant Rose.

I've now read through the judgment. One of the interesting aspects is that it engages with the human rights argument and explicitly says that there is NO right under Article 8 for a transgender person to access single sex spaces based on their gender identity. This is important.

In Peggie, the tribunal assumed that there was such a right (based on absolutely nothing and ignoring For Women Scotland) and that it needed to be balanced against women's rights to single sex spaces. Darlington tribunal says there is no such right, so no conflict of rights, so no need for such a balancing exercise.

But that doesn’t really matter for the definition of harassment does it? He knows he’s male and if the employer is liable for harassment in allowing him in then surely he is personally liable. He doesn’t have to intend to create a hostile, intimidating etc environment it is enough that that is the purpose or effect

He's an akshual woman, didn't you realise? His bio on Twitter/X:

Broadcaster. Biological Female. Don’t identify - am. Terfs - racists for trans people. BBC News - state propaganda. Woman Of Year 2023. Green

So pleased to hear this news today. Well done the Darlington Nurses and their team.

Think someone said she's not been well so didn't participate in the hearing?

If i recall Sandie Peggie is suing the nurses union. Let's be honest all unions, but in particular some of the public sector unions have badly let their women members down.

Hearing that gives me great pleasure - the man's a tool

Thank fuck for common sense! Although they should not have been put through this in the first place. The organisation they work for is disgusting and the managers that supported this case against them should never be allowed to work in public service ever again.

Yep!

I agree with you on that harassment

I wonder if they could sue the nurse's union for not doing the job of standing up for them. If a union sides with an employer who is breaking the law against a union member, WTF is the point of it? At the very least they should be able to get their subs back.

Having also read it, my thoughts exactly

I'll add here that many trans identified females haven't had ops or hormones.

When I was still in my permanent teaching post, we had three TIFs in the school at one time. (All three have reverted to their female identity since then.)

The one girl who was 'stealth' was excused P.E. and chose to use the disabled toilet. The other two girls happily used the girls' toilets and changing rooms. Their classmates had no problem with that all. Why should they? The TIFs were just girls who wore trousers and had short hair.

Yess, common sense prevails.

the TRA’s are going batshit over this. Willoughby screaming into the void again…

What will be the consequence for the nurses Union? They have been so badly let down and I hope there get an apology however I can see them ever trust the Union again.

Having gone through the 134 page judgement it is almost a complete victory.

The claims that failed were mostly very weak, with limited evidence including most of the claims featuring Rose's behaviour.

The one area where I think the tribunal was wrong was the claim of Rose repeatedly asking another nurse "are you getting changed yet". The logic seems to have been that there would have been nothing wrong with this coming from another woman, but they do not seem to have considered that it was coming from a male.

Otherwise it is comprehensive and readable and will be quoted often. HR lawyers will be having a very busy weekend.

Can anyone explain why Joanne Bradbury's claim is stayed, and what's likely to happen with the judgment in her case?

yeah I think the reason Rose wasn’t deemed to have harassed anyone is because he was incorrectly told he could change there and the women had to be kind.
So it’s the fault of the NHS, not the male they wrongly sent into the women’s changing room.