Well this was totally predictable

Yes, that is what I mean by the exact opposite in the NHS - people being disciplined (officially or unofficially) for raising safety risks. They are told to look away when faced with clear risks.

Regardless of what the law says, my point is that the reality is there exists a specific type of assault that is only possible to be done with a penis, and that brings specifically male psychological and cultural elements into the act that are relevant and should be recognised, and that to not recognise this gives an incomplete understanding of why men rape.

I think Scotland and the US are wrong not to recognise this in law.

Victim-blaming and point-scoring is pretty much what I'd expect, I suppose. Misgendering on this thread shows the total lack of respect for the poor victim.

Except that it was the NHS's adherence to not misgendering that directly led to this horrific outcome.

The Supreme Court clarified last April that single sex meant sex at birth and not gender.

Had the NHS followed the actual law rather than trying to #bekind, she wouldn't have been raped on male psychiatric ward.

Speaking generally, there are always posters who come into threads about rape to totally derail them.

Speaking more specifically, there are always TRA posters who come on threads here about how gender ideology has led to the harm of women from rape/sexual assault and try and make the thread about something else with whataboutery to distract from the original story.

It’s truly one of the most harmful ideologies around advocated for by some of the worst people going. This poor woman is a victim of it.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed

As a trans person, can I please ask you to kindly shut up? You're making trans people and their advocates look like absolute morons who can't even read properly.

More precisely: as a transman, I know exactly where I would want to be put, should I ever have to go into a psychiatric ward. Hint: it would not be the male ward! I would be very happy indeed to shave (so as not to worry the other female inmates) and be housed with the women, where I would be safe.

This is what should have happened to this transman. Do you disagree with that?

Can we just point out the people mainly women who HAVE raised concerns have been suspended, dismissed, harassed etc etc etc and had to take their concerns to tribunals and courts to get some semblance of justice.

This isn't 'people looking the other way assuming the higher ups have it'.

Again you've got that backwards.
The mental health crisis that young people who identify as trans is not caused by people refusing to deny biological reality. Instead they trans identity is caused by the underlying mental health issues that they already have and are exasperated by those who affirm them.
The only people victim blaming are the TRAs and MRAs who invaded this thread much like you to blame us and the victim whilst claiming that women rape too so the victim would have been raped in a woman's ward anyway.
Most of us have pushed back against the bs line and have been horrified by this case.
We are not terfmen or terfwomen.
We are not responsible for men nor their behaviour.
If I ever heard a man threatening to rape anyone I would report them to the police as even tthreatening to rape someone is a crime
Perhaps you would be better off spending your time scolding and reporting men who make rape threats instead of they're victims

Given it's the same people proposing teen girls should go into make facilities it absolutely is.

I would argue that it is more 'up to date' to have clear legislation that describes penile penetration without consent. It does not prevent the prosecution of other offences.

Even allowing for the fact that women are convicted for sex abuse, overwhelmingly, the perpetrators are men.

I learned yesterday that the age of consent doesn't apply in California as long as the parents have given permission for the abuser to marry the victim, but under 18 year olds can't get a divorce. Attempts to end child marriage are opposed by Planned Parenthood and the ACLU. My impression is that the US has quite a long way to catch up.

I am reminded of an oil company that investigated an accident. It turns out loads of people saw it was an accident waiting to happen but no one raised it as everyone assumed someone else would or that it must have been approved higher up the chain or command. They changed the culture completely and now it is a disciplinary offence not to report a safety risk if you see one (including down to the level of someone walking up stairs carrying something such that they don’t have a hand free to put on the bannister). The NHS seems to have implemented the exact opposite.

It's absolutely sickening.

But. This is the risk (potential outcome) when TRA's ABSOLUTELY INSIST that a women who believes she is a man and a man who believes he is a woman are placed in the sex spaces of their ideology and not placed in sex spaces based on their biological sex.

And this will continue ad infinitum whilst all the TRA's and their supporters insist that a man can be a woman and woman can be a man. It won't ever change until this ideology is called out for what it is.

I feel so sorry for that poor woman who was raped. The safe guarding appears to have been non existent and the fact that whom ever it was who sanctioned her being placed with biological men, could be thinking one of three things:

a) clearly believes that a woman can be a man and a man can be a woman or was completely sucked into her belief. A TRA or a supporter of.

b) 'yep, place her with the men...this'll teach her to think she can change sex...'.

c) 'fine, [sigh] if you think you're a bloke,...put her in with the men'...

Whichever one it is, it's utterly appalling as safe guarding has completely gone out of the window in all 3 scenarios.

@ArabellaScott I agree it should be left up. It's the most bizarre twisted post I've ever seen.

In E&W. Scotland has dutifully changed rape laws to include surgically created pseudo penises attached to women.

I think it is important to recognise that there is a specific type of assault that is only possible to be done with a penis. An assault that can only ever be committed by one of the two human sexes, and one that is deeply bound up with aspects of male self image and male cultural history.

If we pretend none of that is relevant, we lose the ability to fully understand rape.

And the trans experience. If sex=gender then no-one would be trans.

Misgendering on this thread

’woman’, ‘she’, ‘her’ and ‘female’ refer to sex. Posters on here are using such language in accordance with their meaning in society. We are not believers in trans ideology so do not use faith-based language concerning ‘gender’. No one is ‘misgendering’ because no one is referring to ‘gender’.

A vulnerable woman who says she's a man gets placed in a locked ward with disturbed men.

The NHS claim that 'no rape happened' if a man on a ward ID'd as female.

Rapists are sent to women's jail.

Under the Scotgov's interpretation of the law, a pregnant woman would lose maternity protections if she identifies as a man.

Genderism is not only absurd, it has real, horrifying outcomes that destroy the lives of women, especially vulnerable women.

Bearing in mind this, of course! Speculation re the perpetrators is likely to be unhelpful.

What Arabella said.

We don't need to constantly quote the post that's not engaging with anything any of us have said.

Speaking generally, there are always posters who come into threads about rape to totally derail them.

My focus is the process that led to this happening, accountability and how policies could be put in place to prevent, or lower the risk of, rapes in future.

It would be great to discuss that, instead of another thread of what FWR is like.

I hope this post isn't deleted. It should remain as an instructive insight into trans rights rhetoric.

The hospital should be called to account but per the article, at least one member of staff wasn’t aware of the victim’s sex.

If I was a member of staff on a psychiatric ward and I didn’t know a woman had been admitted to a male ward, I’d be considering what action I could take against the hospital. In this instance the poor victim was raped but she should never have been there in the first place and if the (insane) procedures say she should, then at the very very least the staff should have been able to do their best to keep her safe.

Even typing that out reinforces the insanity and cruelty of the situation that comes about when people are told it is ‘kind’ or ‘affirming’ to pretend people are the opposite sex.

How could this woman ever have been kept safe from a rapist on the ward? How can the staff on the floor possibly do their jobs with this madness being imposed on them?

The reason that things like this are happening is precisely because people like you don’t recognise the reality and immutability of biological sex.

On Reddit there's been a thread with a TIF preparing for a psych in-patient stay and insisting on a male ward. I hope she sees this and thinks again.

Appalling beyond words. Whoever allowed this should be prosecuted as an accessory to rape.