Trans woman gym goer caught masturbating in women’s changing room

It’s perfectly fair to say that, given that he is. But do feel free to fret about “fairness” to a man who orally raped and physically and psychologically tortured a young man he abducted and attempted to murder someone else.

WTAF!

So now men can make threats towards women and if they are from a specific subgroup people should not take those threats seriously?

fuck.

I didn't say that threats shouldn't be taken seriously, please don't misquote me.

I asked if you'd consider someone threatening to rape or murder you for simply disagreeing with them a serious person, representative of their entire community.

To be clear, by 'considering them a serious person' I was referring to whether their threats to rape/kill gave you the impression that they were somebody to be taken seriously, there to make meaningful, good faith arguments in support of their cause, or that they were idiots/scumbags looking to cause upset/aggro and not worth the time of day?

I thought I'd qualified that in the following paragraphs, but I apologize if I wasn't clear. My bad.

there is something disconnected in being told that obviously people aren’t condoning these threats

I just had a quick look and all four of the politicians pictured with that 'Decapitate TERFS' sign immediately condemned it when the images were posted and claimed they didn't know it was being held up behind them when the pictures were taken.

Whether all four of them saw it and had the same monumental lapse in judgement, or whether it was held up behind them without their knowledge, you cannot seriously suggest that their official position - as politicians - is that they endorse the decapitation of TERFS.

I don't know who Baker is, but I've had a quick read up and watched the video and yeah, extremely stupid/potentially dangerous thing to say. I don't think it's fair to say that she's out there 'rallying people to punch TERFS' based on one unrepeated, apologised for comment from two years ago, or that a politician supporting her activism today is somehow endorsing that.

Ohh, do you have a link, I’d love to read this

All the pictures of these 'rallies' I've seen with signs calling for violence look like they'd struggle to put on a game of five-a-side with their numbers, so I'd expect them all to be on the same page.

But you're right - trans activists who don't share those views should absolutely be rejecting calls for violence of any kind. But there's also the argument that by acknowledging the signs, especially at a rally, you're giving them the confrontation and attention they so desperately crave.

Suggesting that someone should be guillotined is a patently unserious statement - where do we draw the line? TERFS Should Be Tarred & Feathered? TERFS Should Be Shot into Space? TERFS Should Be Made To Watch Mrs Brown's Boys On Repeat?

He was on licence and that is why he apologised. He didn't want to go back to prison. I don't believe for one second that he was sorry.

Are you aware of any meaningful good faith arguments in support of TWAW? I’ve never heard or read any.

I wasn't suggesting there are. My point was that - no matter the topic - someone's who responds to your difference of opinion by threatening to rape you clearly shouldn't be taken seriously.

It’s worth reading the Salon article about how the Wachowski “sisters” decided they were women.

WTAF!

So now men can make threats towards women and if they are from a specific subgroup people should not take those threats seriously?

fuck.

I didn't say that threats shouldn't be taken seriously, please don't misquote me.

I asked if you'd consider someone threatening to rape or murder you for simply disagreeing with them a serious person, representative of their entire community.

To be clear, by 'considering them a serious person' I was referring to whether their threats to rape/kill gave you the impression that they were somebody to be taken seriously, there to make meaningful, good faith arguments in support of their cause, or that they were idiots/scumbags looking to cause upset/aggro and not worth the time of day?

I thought I'd qualified that in the following paragraphs, but I apologize if I wasn't clear. My bad.

there is something disconnected in being told that obviously people aren’t condoning these threats

I just had a quick look and all four of the politicians pictured with that 'Decapitate TERFS' sign immediately condemned it when the images were posted and claimed they didn't know it was being held up behind them when the pictures were taken.

Whether all four of them saw it and had the same monumental lapse in judgement, or whether it was held up behind them without their knowledge, you cannot seriously suggest that their official position - as politicians - is that they endorse the decapitation of TERFS.

I don't know who Baker is, but I've had a quick read up and watched the video and yeah, extremely stupid/potentially dangerous thing to say. I don't think it's fair to say that she's out there 'rallying people to punch TERFS' based on one unrepeated, apologised for comment from two years ago, or that a politician supporting her activism today is somehow endorsing that.

If toilets are going to be divided between male and female, it should be on lines of sex, not gender. You've got to consider why it's necessary to split them. It's largely to prevent certain males from behaving inappropriately. But men don't react well when women go into their toilets either. They don't want a female stranger to see them at the urinal. It's also about modesty.

A male person who claims to be a woman is still male and needs to stay out, precisely because he might act inappropriately and make the women feel uncomfortable or threatened.

That said, I feel like this incident, distasteful as it is, has been exaggerated. It should have been dealt with quietly and the male person banned from the female toilets in future.

Has anyone posed a suggestion which male extreme transgender activists law and policy makers ‘should’ take seriously if it isn’t the ones threatening and intimidating women? Are there any male extreme transgender rights activists who are not intimidating women? All that I know of intimidate women by deliberating using female single sex provisions.

The dismissal is not just about the threat to punch women. The dismissal is also that he ‘apologised’ and that it was two years ago.

I expect most 'reasonable trans people' don't associate with those calling for the rape and murder of others.

Funny how TRA with violent history get platformed at gatherings and speak of carrying out acts of harm against women and people stay but its not to boo or to demand the removal of the speaker and an apology from the organisers. 🤷‍♀️

Funny how womens gatherings and the women who attend are subjected to violent acts and the need to have police protections. 🤷‍♀️

Your "Reasonable" is the no true Scotsman argument. 👀

And in truth, do we really need anyone to point out that they don't condone raping/killing people? Can't we work that out for ourselves?

There have been a number of posters here on MN who have stated that the rape of a child or a woman should not count or be relevant to the issue of why single sex spaces are needed.

Plenty have told women with PTSD from sexual abuse that they should accept that the male wanting to be in what should be a single sex space is more relevant and important that their need for a single sex space.

There are a few posters who are likely wanking on their keyboards while reading and/or posting.

And whole threads about prople who defend their choice to risk killing their partner during sex for a thrill.

Killings for a ideology is just killing on another day ending in y.

So sometimes a question is needed to be asked and answered.

I think that @Kimura is trying to say that someone who threatens rape as a response to disagreement is a person whose position or arguments should not be taken seriously. And not that they’re saying threats of rape should not be taken seriously. They can correct me if I’m wrong.

Given your general limited understanding of or exposure to these concerns about trans women inserting themselves into female only spaces, please reread Seethlaw · Today 08:56 comments to understand the general position in the trans community. Seethlaw knows of which they speak as a trans man.

I was talking about people who are trans. Trans women and trans men.

I don't know who Baker is, but I've had a quick read up and watched the video and yeah, extremely stupid/potentially dangerous thing to say. I don't think it's fair to say that she's out there 'rallying people to punch TERFS' based on one unrepeated, apologised for comment from two years ago

UNREPEATED???

That violent sexist thug literally took a recording of his threat, the one he had previously been forgiven for breaking the terms of his bail because he "apologised for" it, looped it and played it on a loudspeaker to intimidate and disrupt a Feminist protest!!!

Can't really get more repeated than that, or prove any more clearly how fake his apology was.

I respectfully suggest, rather than admitting you know almost nothing about what has been happening but nevertheless feeling entitled to argue that what we are saying is happening can't posdibly be happening because it's not what a reasonable person would do, you spend a bit of time reading trans reddit, Bluesky and trans voices on Medium to see just how far their idea of "reasonable" has moved away from yours.

Are you aware of any meaningful good faith arguments in support of TWAW? I’ve never heard or read any.

I wasn't suggesting there are. My point was that - no matter the topic - someone's who responds to your difference of opinion by threatening to rape you clearly shouldn't be taken seriously.

I think it's more than silly. It's horrific. Imagine telling women not to take rape threats seriously? 🙄

Are you aware of any meaningful good faith arguments in support of TWAW? I’ve never heard or read any.

I wasn't suggesting there are. My point was that - no matter the topic - someone's who responds to your difference of opinion by threatening to rape you clearly shouldn't be taken seriously.

WTAF!

So now men can make threats towards women and if they are from a specific subgroup people should not take those threats seriously?

fuck.

I didn't say that threats shouldn't be taken seriously, please don't misquote me.

I asked if you'd consider someone threatening to rape or murder you for simply disagreeing with them a serious person, representative of their entire community.

To be clear, by 'considering them a serious person' I was referring to whether their threats to rape/kill gave you the impression that they were somebody to be taken seriously, there to make meaningful, good faith arguments in support of their cause, or that they were idiots/scumbags looking to cause upset/aggro and not worth the time of day?

I thought I'd qualified that in the following paragraphs, but I apologize if I wasn't clear. My bad.

there is something disconnected in being told that obviously people aren’t condoning these threats

I just had a quick look and all four of the politicians pictured with that 'Decapitate TERFS' sign immediately condemned it when the images were posted and claimed they didn't know it was being held up behind them when the pictures were taken.

Whether all four of them saw it and had the same monumental lapse in judgement, or whether it was held up behind them without their knowledge, you cannot seriously suggest that their official position - as politicians - is that they endorse the decapitation of TERFS.

I don't know who Baker is, but I've had a quick read up and watched the video and yeah, extremely stupid/potentially dangerous thing to say. I don't think it's fair to say that she's out there 'rallying people to punch TERFS' based on one unrepeated, apologised for comment from two years ago, or that a politician supporting her activism today is somehow endorsing that.

WTAF!

So now men can make threats towards women and if they are from a specific subgroup people should not take those threats seriously?

fuck.

I didn't say that threats shouldn't be taken seriously, please don't misquote me.

I asked if you'd consider someone threatening to rape or murder you for simply disagreeing with them a serious person, representative of their entire community.

To be clear, by 'considering them a serious person' I was referring to whether their threats to rape/kill gave you the impression that they were somebody to be taken seriously, there to make meaningful, good faith arguments in support of their cause, or that they were idiots/scumbags looking to cause upset/aggro and not worth the time of day?

I thought I'd qualified that in the following paragraphs, but I apologize if I wasn't clear. My bad.

there is something disconnected in being told that obviously people aren’t condoning these threats

I just had a quick look and all four of the politicians pictured with that 'Decapitate TERFS' sign immediately condemned it when the images were posted and claimed they didn't know it was being held up behind them when the pictures were taken.

Whether all four of them saw it and had the same monumental lapse in judgement, or whether it was held up behind them without their knowledge, you cannot seriously suggest that their official position - as politicians - is that they endorse the decapitation of TERFS.

I don't know who Baker is, but I've had a quick read up and watched the video and yeah, extremely stupid/potentially dangerous thing to say. I don't think it's fair to say that she's out there 'rallying people to punch TERFS' based on one unrepeated, apologised for comment from two years ago, or that a politician supporting her activism today is somehow endorsing that.

Of course, there was that bloke (who identifies as a woman) who actually put a number on how many assaults on women and girls per year were acceptable as a cost for including males in female single sex spaces.

If anyone can remember his name, or has the screenshot of him stating what the number was, I'm sure that Kimura would like to see it.