Womens toilet with cubicles in the workplace

Guess you don’t flood

I have had to wash my knickers and trousers and dry them under the hand dryer before - because the meeting went on for 2 hrs before a break

Ironically, I wonder how much transphobia would be revealed if non-trans male TRAs were forced to explain this unwillingness, as in, "I don't want those weirdos in my spaces!"

Who the fuck washes menstrual blood from their hands at a set of shared sinks?
I have NEVER seen this and frankly that's unhygienic as fuck and I would not be pleased if I saw that. I use a menstrual cup and if it gets messy, I use toilet paper to wipe off my hands as much as possible so it's barely visible before I go out to wash my hands. Like a normal person.

It's genuinely funny as hell that this is brought up as a talking point as though it's commonplace for women to be rinsing bloody hands and their blood-soaked clothes in shared sinks in a toilet.

Why is the trans identifying individual using the disabled toilet? Are they disabled?

Agreed! Courageous, and I imagine, persistent. I have no doubt they were at the very least discouraged from going through the whole process.

Yes, I always remember how quick and efficient the response was when a man assaulted a colleague in the loos way back in the 20th century. Because he was in a place he had no right to enter.

Nowadays he could have claimed 'womanhood' to enable him to keep pursuing his hobby.

Try support all men being able to access mens services.

The unwillingness of men and TRA allies to champion these trans iding men being safe in mens services is proof of the lipservice given when real change is needed.

Those four people were incredibly brave. When you see how women who complain are treated I’m amazed four people were able to lodge formal complaints at all. They must be very strong people and not afraid of the backlash and collateral damage. I can only hope I would be that courageous.

Great thanks for that, you take any risks you want - surprised you’re so blasé about your granddaughters safety though, have you seen any data around sexual assaults in mixed sex spaces?

Also quite arrogant to think you can speak for all women too.
I don’t want men sharing my toilets thanks (and I know it’s not all men, I have a DH, brothers etc who are “good men”)

My friend who had a man exposing himself to her in the ladies was one of the first people I know to get the problem around this - when it happened to her the man was dealt with by staff, police called etc. These days he could have uttered the magic words “I’m a lady” and it’s my friend would have been accused of a hate crime!

@NumbersGuy I don’t want men in women’s single sex spaces.

the law says they aren’t allowed

why shouldn’t men be expected to obey the law?

Funnily enough, they didn't ask schools. Or prisons. Hospitals were asked only about complaints by patients, not staff. Only 50 local authorities - out of 317 - were asked (41 responded).

Almost as if they were trying to minimise the issue.

Ooo a Cool GranMa

What other law should your granddaughters employer deem hysteria?

The whole type of bodies of humans who grow the babies stuff costs firms a fortune and why should women get special treatment just because there is laws in place?

As @InfoSecInTheCity s post pointed out the UK employer has legal obligations which are not a pick-n-mix.

ffs

Rather NOT have completely sealed cubicles (because if I or a colleague have health issues we could end up dead).

@Indianajet
So - eh - interesting, that you "just do not get the hysteria over toilets".
Your consent is not transferable.

This is so weird. Why would you even think of using such a sociopathic argument? "4 real people complained, but we can all agree to dismiss them entirely, right?" Like, one person complaining would already be too much. A person is a person is a person. They can't be dismissed as a non-person. So weird.

'hysteria' huh? How very 19th century of you.

I would rather have completely sealed cubicles, because a very well informed poster has explained repeatedly (with data) how dangerous they are for anyone who suffers collapse for any reason (heart, epilepsy, diabetes etc).

I would rather not share wash basin facilities with a man if I'm coping with blood or other body fluids.

I have a lifetime of sexual harassment and minor assault by men. No of course I never reported it, what would be the point of that?

But just because I have a female body, my opinions and my expression of them are not governed by a wandering and uncontrollable womb.

It must be lovely to move in circles where men are no threat to women.

I was sexually assaulted by a man on the otherwise empty top deck of a bus when I was 14.

I never told anyone until many years later.

That was only the worst of the usual collection of groping, seeing men masturbate under their clothes in public when I couldn’t escape and general threatening behaviour I have experienced. All by men. Never reported. Who to? Who would do anything?

No, I lie. In my 40s, at work, a 6’4” colleague came to my office door one quiet evening and asked if I’d like a fuck. Straight out. He had me trapped. I was scared and angry but there were enough people within earshot that I could tell him to piss off and never do that again. He said it was a joke. I told our boss who called him in for a talking to.

@NumbersGuy do you think I can or should ever not be wary of what men might do when I am vulnerable?

But @PurpleBubble mens toilets also have lockable cubicles so males with a trans identity would be perfectly safe in there. No need to use female facilities. Awesome. .

So what number of women is the number you would accept before you agree men should not be in female spaces? 10? 100? 1000? One is too many don’t you agree?

Have you actually ever been in a public toilet with a strange man?
My one experience was when I was in a student union building for an evening theatre performance where the ‘gender neutral’ (women’s with a new sign in the door 🙄) toilets were the only ones near to the theatre so I had no real choice other than to use them, or go wandering off in the hope of finding some single sex facilities. I walked in alone, and a perfectly normal looking, middle aged man came in a few seconds after. I immediately felt uncomfortable and on edge and could see he did too, but then some more men and women came in and I felt a bit more relaxed. You could tell most people, men and women, were uncomfortable but had to get on with it.
Nothing untoward was likely to happen as it was busy but there is no way I would use an isolated facility.
You might be completely on board in theory but I bet you would have a completely different attitude in practice.

I assume you must randomly alternate (depending what is most convenient) between using toilet blocks marked as men and women then? They both have lockable cubicles, so no reason to restrict yourself.

And before anyone says it. It’s a fourth space. Not a third space. The third space is taken by disabled people.

and before anyone says this as well. A trans person should not use the disabled loos unless they are disabled. If they are disabled, then of course they should.

@IndianajetI accept and respect that you are comfortable using cubicle style toilets that men who regard themselves as women can use. I am really not. Rationally I know that there is a small risk of covert cameras, recording etc, a tiny risk of assault. But the bigger issues is visceral, I feel very very uneasy about doing my business with only cubicle protection from males. I think this is evolved hardwiring - throughout human history women have had to keep themselves and children safe. I don’t even use toilets if there is a male cleaner. I don’t want to punish or humiliate trans women, many of whom who may have very similar feelings by insisting they use male toilets, but there have to be third space arrangement s or properly designed unisex toilets (which I personally dislike but I accept that this is a compromise solution). I do not think I should be shamed into accepting that my feelings are less important than transwomen feeling ”validated” by using women’s toilets. And this is without even considering the (albeit tiny number) of bad faith actors who use male rights to women’s spaces to predate.