Womens toilet with cubicles in the workplace

So then why should a male not use make facilities? They also have cubicles with lockable doors?

Edited: oops, wrong thread

Here is one for all the 'I just don't know why everyone is soooo hysterical about'....

It doesn't fucking matter if YOU don't get why women don't want spaces, the thing to understand is YOU don't get to consent on behalf of any other women.

https://x.com/KnownHeretic/status/2006208789578391667?s=20

But you cannot make the decision 'to be happy' for other women who may have good reasons for wanting single sex facilities - or just don't want to share with men.

The problem with allowing TiMs into women's spaces is that a) it's illegal if the facility is female single sex b) it allows all men into women's facilities c) it is discrimnatory to allow TiMs into a facility but not non-TiMs and is thus illegal.
And you may be happy in your locked cubicle but how are you when confronted by a 6ft 2in man in a frock with an erection in the main area of the facility? How would you feel if your granddaughters were so confronted, on their own?

Unfortunately the reasons why transwomen like to use female toilets are not confined to 'just wanting to pee.'
(see above posts)

Referring to two very recent instances of challenges and asking @Indianajet whether these are hysteria. There is a thread on here about a man who was filmed masturbating in a women's locker room. Behind a locked cubicle door with gaps below. The frantic hand movements were caught as a shadow play on the ground. He claimed to be trans when challenged after ten minutes of this behaviour. Some men do get sexually excited by women urinating on them.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5473470-5473470-trans-woman-gym-goer-caught-masturbating-in-womens-changing-room

How do you feel about your granddaughters being part of their fetish and being unable to say no.

in another thread on this board two very tall trans women (both looking like very gorgeous drag queens) were asked to leave the powder area of the ladies by several young women. They left eventually as there were several young women who insisted. The women quoted the law, one of the men issued threats against them.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5473498-men-in-womens-bathroom-at-not-all-gays-awards

This was in the UK. The masturbation case was in the US.

The idea that people just want to pee is likely true in many cases, but objecting to these outlying abuses should not be described as hysteria. It should not be difficult to complain. In both cases the security/reception staff were unwilling to intervene. I assume they have policies or training that empathise being kind.

Can you send an anonymous email to complain and copy and paste the ruling?

This is interesting. I work for a large Organisation with these toilets, we have two trainwomen, that I know use these loos. I have a feeling due the culture here, saying anything would be to my detriment

I am not afraid of transwomen using the same toilets I do.

Congratulations on being so brave. You're a hero. Your medal is in the post.

Do you have any feeling at all for the many women and girls whose experiences of abuse or assault have made them afraid? Or all the women and girls who will have these traumatising experiences in the future? -- which will become more frequent, thanks to the helpful acquiescence of people who don't care.

can you quit it with the "hysteria" comment. Thanks.

There are many and varied reasons why women - for eg Muslim women - don't want a man in a women's space. Applies ESPECIALLY when there are other places those men can go

That's horrific, Genderless. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

My experience is of a place of safety, which it should have been for you. As a child of about 11, I ran away from a man (a stranger) who had sexually assaulted me, and hid in the women's toilets. The women there kept me safe, while some of them chased him away from hanging around outside.

At my junior school, in a fairly rough area, I had discovered that if a boy was bullying you and you could run to the girls' toilets, you'd be safe because he couldn't go in.

Though the assault made me hypervigilant when in a confined space or with a man between me and the exit, I continued to feel safe and comfortable in women's toilets, changing rooms etc until the recent trend for men to invade women's spaces. Now they are no longer reliably safe.

Thanks so much, Indianajet and your circles. Thanks for nothing.

Yes. Where on earth else would one be advocating for male access to a locked room, containing partially dressed women and children??

In regards to younger people not understanding:

There is a demographic going through school that will absolutely understand because they have had to deal with mixed sex toilets and sinks. I think it’s telling that children themselves divide the toilets into female sides and male sides, such is the reluctance for both sexes to use mixed sex toilets and sinks. What happens in schools absolutely is indicative of what happens in society.

Other young people won’t have had this experience. They may not have had much experience of using council run public toilets as around 40% have closed. They will have used venue toilets in restaurants etc or abstained from going.

I find it extremely difficult to get any sort of stats particularly on non-domestic toilets in businesses because no one wants to advertise the fact someone came to harm in their toilets. It has to get through so many layers of people not saying anything for various reasons before a small % of incidents get in the papers.

Unfortunately I get a lot of toilet related clips on social media. Young people aren’t stupid - IF they see these clips they will see the problems.

What I get frustrated about is the knee-jerk solution to enclose the toilet cubicle itself then surely everything fine. That’s actually the worst situation for health and safety.

I had similar problems when I was 56, in spite of being on HRT. I remember the precise time that the worst incident happened because my school had moved into a new build where the toilets were single sex but the sink area was open to the corridor 'to prevent vandalism and bullying'. This was central Scotland.

Yes, staff had to share with pupils. Yes, staff complained.

Two slightly younger women at work had similar problems and finished up getting signed off until each had an operation. (We discussed the matter and possible solutions.) Thankfully, my problem sorted itself out.

The third picture down in this article gives a more accurate picture of the horror visited upon Dolatowski's victims. I am in awe of the 10 yr old girl who fought off this 6ft plus brute by punching "her" in the balls.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/courts/4324534/sex-offender-dolatowski-mens-prison/

As was exactly the problem with Lennon Dolatowski's victims.

Ah. I hadn't picked up on the word "hysteria" when I first read that post. I do find the use of that word rather telling.

I used to be of the same opinion as you until Katie Dolatowski tried to rape a 10 yr old girl in the women's toilets of a supermarket 10 miles away from me. As noted in the attached article, Lennon/Katie Dolatowski had previously committed the crime of voyeurism against a 12 yr old girl, again in a supermarket toilet.

You'll note that the lockable cubicle did not deter the predator: "When she came out of her cubicle, Dolatowski shoved her back in and told her there was a man outside who would kill her mother."

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/courts/819644/mum-of-supermarket-toilet-sex-assault-victim-warns-freed-attacker-could-strike-again/

That’s great. Your choice, and so kind of you to make the choices on your grand daughters behalf too.

But not my choice so please don’t make choices for me, or for the other women who because of trauma, shyness, religion, social anxiety, health issues or personal preference , prefer not to share intimate spaces with men who for reasons of their own choose to ignore womens feelings and intrude on single sex spaces.

Might be worth taking a few moments to wonder why TIM do feel that their needs and wants trump the needs and wants of women, because let’s face it, most men wouldn’t.

Let the world know. Sure, why not? We have nothing to be ashamed of.

BUT - mega, enormous caveat - only if you are comfortable to let them know. Only on your own terms. Your body, your choice. Nobody has the right to know. And for certain nobody has the right to hear the sound of your tampon wrapper so that he can get his rocks off.

men with a specialised interest in entering female spaces

💯

And also Robin Moira Wright calling mixed sex toilet rooms ‘ghettos’ and insisting on asking where the women’s is again in parliament buildings, despite Parliament having labelled ‘gender-neutral’ toilets.

There is no need to make women uncomfortable.

See also Victoria McCloud who seems to think leaving the country is the only way to not get killed if not being able to use women’s loos. Unfortunately Victoria not thinking it through far enough to realise women’s loos are obsolete if they are open to men. Currently the single sex designs would all have to change presumably becoming the ghettos RMW mentions.

Unfortunately they get a double dose, in real life when they are walking to school, running in the park, at the gym, on the train, playing sport, in the playground and classroom or just shopping PLUS they get harassment online

The thing all the people harassing have in common is that they are biological men, however they present and one thing all the victims have in common is that they are biological women however they present, whatever they wear and whatever they are doing minding their own business.